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To: SoothingDave
Soothing Dave
Re: #314,315
Been there, done that. The pastor feels the position of his chair is more important. The bishop will back him up. They have the power to say that black is white on an issue like this and have people believe them since folks believe the clergy have a direct pipeline to God.
Along side of illicit songs, dancing girls and a platoon of "extaordinary ministers" (five plus the padre for a crowd of 150-300), I guess this fits right in. At least we still have valid communion; no corn tortilla or honey flavored stuff as I have seen elsewhere.
27 posted on 07/17/2003 9:15:28 AM PDT by rogator
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To: rogator
Been there, done that.

You have my condolances. I just wanted to make sure you had the proper information, in case you didn't.

SD

29 posted on 07/17/2003 9:21:01 AM PDT by SoothingDave
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To: rogator
Along side of illicit songs, dancing girls and a platoon of "extaordinary ministers" (five plus the padre for a crowd of 150-300), I guess this fits right in.

You probably mean "here I am lord" "on eagles wings" "one bread one body" and all of the other Marty Haugen crappy songs? But sadly, I don't think they are illicit, just crappy banal songs. EEMs... what a can of worms! I've seen priests sit down while the EEMs give out Holy Communion. I've yet (thank you God) to see the liturgical dancing girls. I am kind of shy, but if that ever happens, I will quietly stand up and take my family outta there.

At least we still have valid communion; no corn tortilla or honey flavored stuff as I have seen elsewhere.

Some of the biggest, most thriving parishes have illicit matter for Communion. I think that's what happens when we start to adopt the thought process that externals don't matter - start small and end up being another religion entirely.

37 posted on 07/17/2003 9:31:11 AM PDT by american colleen
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To: rogator
The pastor feels the position of his chair is more important.

More important than the tabernacle? Time to find a new parish.

44 posted on 07/17/2003 9:43:25 AM PDT by al_c
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To: rogator; american colleen; sinkspur
Along side of illicit songs, dancing girls and a platoon of "extaordinary ministers" (five plus the padre for a crowd of 150-300), I guess this fits right in. At least we still have valid communion; no corn tortilla or honey flavored stuff as I have seen elsewhere.

Click on the following link, note each and every abuse currently practiced in your parish, and then address them with your pastor. If he fails to correct them, write to the diocesan office. Cite these laws and, trust me, the abuses will stop. It is important that you be persistent, while substantiating your facts with the information supplied here. It is your right as a catholic!

Inaestimabile Donum and Canon Law state:

"The faithful have a right to a true Liturgy, which means the Liturgy desired and laid down by the Church, which has in fact indicated where adaptations may be made as called for by pastoral requirements in different places or by different groups of people. Undue experimentation, changes and creativity bewilder the faithful. The use of unauthorized texts means a loss of the necessary connection between the lex orandi and the lex credendi. The Second Vatican Council's admonition in this regard must be remembered: "No person, even if he be a priest, may add, remove or change anything in the Liturgy on his own authority." [Sacrosanctum Concilium] And Paul VI of venerable memory stated that: "Anyone who takes advantage of the reform to indulge in arbitrary experiments is wasting energy and offending the ecclesial sense."[Paul VI, address of August 22, 1973: "L'Osservatore Romano," August 23, 1973.]

Canon 528 §2: "The parish priest is to take care that the blessed Eucharist is the center of the parish assembly of the faithful. He is to strive to ensure that the faithful are nourished by the devout celebration of the sacraments, and in particular that they frequently approach the sacraments of the blessed Eucharist and penance. He is to strive to lead them to prayer, including prayer in their families, and to take a live and active part in the sacred liturgy. Under the authority of the diocesan Bishop, the parish priest must direct this liturgy in his own parish, and he is bound to be on guard against abuses."

In general, experimentation is gravely wrong, as stated in Vatican II's Instruction on the Orderly Carrying out of the Constitution on the Liturgy (Liturgicae Instaurationes):

"The effectiveness of liturgy does not lie in experimenting with rites and altering them over and over, nor in a continuous reductionism, but solely in entering more deeply into the word of God and the mystery being celebrated. It is the presence of these two that authenticates the Church's rites, not what some priest decides, indulging his own preferences."

"Keep in mind, then, that the private recasting of ritual introduced by an individual priest insults the dignity of the believer and lays the way open to individual and idiosyncratic forms in celebrations that are in fact the property of the whole Church."

Abuses of any kind cause scandal, meaning that such practices are obstructions to a person's way to increased Faith (see Matthew 18:6-9).

IS YOUR MASS VALID?

60 posted on 07/17/2003 11:41:35 AM PDT by NYer (Laudate Dominum)
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To: rogator
"At least we still have valid communion; no corn tortilla or honey flavored stuff as I have seen elsewhere."



Does it matter what the flavor is, as long as it undergoes the change into the Body and Blood?

I don't know - am just asking.
106 posted on 07/17/2003 1:21:05 PM PDT by Blzbba
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