The True Cross (Separating Myth From History)

Biblical Archaeology ^ | 7-16-2003 | Jan Willem Drijvers

[TomServo]

Did you see the special they ran on this during Christmas on the Discovery channel? Absolutely fascinating.

[EggsAckley]

*bookmarking for later*

[blam]

"Did you see the special they ran on this during Christmas on the Discovery channel?"

Nope. Missed it.

[Servant of the Nine]

Wood was in short supply in Jerusalem. The Romans no more gave the mourners the cross their friend had died on than mourners today are given the electric chair he fried in.

Crosses were reused, and at that time often where not true crosses at all, but merely crosspieces nailed to old olive trees

So9

[50sDad]

Bookmark

[TomServo]

Well, in case you wanna check it out.

[Zavien Doombringer]

Not entirely true, there are post holes on Galgotha...indicating the possiblity of a center post. Hammering into olive trees would have killed off thier livelyhood.

Wood was in short supply, and crosses were reused.

Helena miss labeled Mt. Sinai, she was a body of water short...

[Zavien Doombringer]

Try this;
http://anchorstone.com

[ffusco]

The Romans didn't drive nails through the hands. That's just poetic license from painters.The nails were driven above the wrist between the 2 bones of the fore-arm.

[Hermann the Cherusker]

"Ecce lignum Crucis in quo salus munids pependit."

"Behold the Wood of the Cross, upon which hung the Savior of the world!" (Mass of the Presanctified, Good Friday, Roman Rite)

The words are literally true, as a piece of the true cross was held up by the Pope in the ancient ceremony at Santa Croce in Gerusalemme.

[Between the Lines]

"Wood was in short supply in Jerusalem."
"Wood was in short supply, and crosses were reused."

During Jesus time Jerusalem had many trees and the surrounding countryside had many forests. It was not until the Roman siege of Jerusalem in AD 70 that the landscape became bare. The Romans ordered all the trees within twelve miles of the city to be felled and made into banks, hurdles, frameworks and 160 siege machines. Also crosses were made from them on which as many as 500 Jews were crucified every day. This same scene was repeated in the other fortified cities of "Palestine" as well. After the fall of Jerusalem all the trees of "Palestine" were taxed. Not wishing to pay the tax or not being able to afford the tax the people cut down their trees. Thus the deforestation of the Holy Land became complete.

[Zavien Doombringer]

That was interesting info..Thank you!

[Hermann the Cherusker]

The Romans didn't drive nails through the hands. That's just poetic license from painters.The nails were driven above the wrist between the 2 bones of the fore-arm.

That's not the wrist you refer to, but the forearm. The wrist is at the base of the hand at the bottom of the palm. Jesus was nailed through the wrist, not the forearm.

There is a hole in the bones of the middle of the wrist, roughly where the crease ends if you cup your hand together, where Jesus' hand was nailed through to crucify him. You can see this location of the wound on the Holy Shroud of Turin. The Gospels also specifically mention Christ urging the Apostles to touch the holes in his HANDS, which include the wrist, not his forearms. I don't think the Gospel authors would have flubbed that detail.

John 20.20 And when he had said this, he shewed them his hands and his side.

John 20.25-27 The other disciples therefore said to him: We have seen the Lord. But he said to them: Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails and put my finger into the place of the nails and put my hand into his side, I will not believe. And after eight days, again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them. Jesus cometh, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst and said: Peace be to you. Then he said to Thomas: Put in thy finger hither and see my hands. And bring hither the hand and put it into my side. And be not faithless, but believing.

[Alex Murphy]

He built churches—primarily in Palestine—and curbed pagan cults by not allowing pagans to set up cult statues or consult oracles, and by forbidding pagan state dignitaries to sacrifice while on duty. Within a few years, the religious atmosphere in the East changed dramatically. Practically for the first time ever, Christians in Palestine and the East experienced religious freedom, while pagans learned what it meant to have their worship restricted.

Can't wait to read the varied responses to this section...

[ffusco]

I don't think the Gospel authors would have flubbed that detail.

Why not? The Hand of God is a powerful image , as seen in the painting of God touching Adam.

[Dr Warmoose]

Crosses were reused, and at that time often where not true crosses at all, but merely crosspieces nailed to old olive trees

Which would go a long way in explaning why the word "tree", rather than "cross" is used in Acts 5:30; 10:39; 13:29; Gal 3:13 and 1 Peter 2:24

I would go a bit further and say that the two robbers were nailed to the same tree as Christ. Since Christ was between the two theives, but they came to Him last. If He was between them, wouldn't they come to Him second? unless they were on the same tree.

Being that the centurion saw the temple veil split in two, clearly they were at alititude (to see over the wall) and directly east of the temple. This points to the southern slope of the Mt Olives; which is the same site that Abraham and Isaac went.

[ffusco]

From a Mormon source:
Dr. Haas observed that Jehohanan's right radius (the upper arm bone as the arms outstretch) had both a surface cut and a distinct wearing, which he reasoned was the initial slice of the nail and the later wearing action from the victim's writhing on the cross. This "scratch" on the bone was positioned between the two lower arm bones at a structurally more solid location to fix a nail....

[Dajjal]

I was at a lecture by Dr. Frederick Zugibe who was very convincing in his theories of where the nails were placed, and much else regarding the crucifixion and the authenticity of the Shroud.

[EuroFrog]

Please tell me how you think a painting by Michelangelo on the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel has to to do with what the bible says about where the nails were placed?