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To: Patrick Madrid; american colleen; Patty Bonds; OrthodoxPresbyterian; Jean Chauvin
From the Envoy article...

***The ancient heresy of Docetism held that the sufferings of Christ were apparent rather than real; that His human body was an illusion of sorts, that what died on the cross wasn’t what it seemed. It is thought by many that St. John wrote his Gospel with a Gnostic/Docetic opponent in mind, thus accounting for his strong emphasis on Jesus’ “flesh” and “blood” (John 6). Similarly, many Protestants believe that the Eucharist is apparent, and not real; that “This is my body” doesn’t mean what it appears to mean. But the Eucharist is not merely apparent, it is an extension of the Incarnation of Christ, just like the Church (which St. Paul calls the “Body of Christ”). A denial of the Real Presence might, therefore, also be regarded as a denial of the Incarnation.***

This is pure poppycock. The implied connection between Protestantism and gnosticis/docetism is a cheap shot. There is no connection and Protestants reject both docetism and gnosticism as heresy.

Likewise Protestants clearly affirm the Incarnation. The phrase "might, therefore, also be regarded as a denial of the Incarnation" is bogus.

I surely hope your magazine is better than this shoddy polemics masquerading as scholarship. If not, please offer no more links. They are not worth my time. I'll read Gerry Matatics instead.
57 posted on 07/12/2003 6:45:39 AM PDT by drstevej
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To: drstevej
Easy there. He could have been clearer in his wording, I agree, but I know Dave (he's a former Evangelical who converted to the Catholic Church some years ago) and I know that he doesn't hold the view that Protestants deny the Incarnation. They clearly do not, as you pointed out. Rather, his comment should have been clarified to say that, assuming the doctrine of the Real Presence is true, as we Catholics believe, then a denial of the Real Presence along the lines he mentions in the article could entail an implicit denial of the Eucharist.

You're right that he could have been more precise, though, to avoid misunderstandings. Thanks for pointing that out. We can modify that to make it clearer and, hoefully, remove any needless and unintended offense.

BTW, I do hope this bump in the road won't deter you from checking out The Hidden Manna. It's nicely done, scholarly and calm, and not polemical. I truly think you'll find it useful.
59 posted on 07/12/2003 7:02:25 AM PDT by Patrick Madrid
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