Are young Catholics Cultural Orphans?

Catholic Exchange ^ | July 10, 2003 | Joanna Bogle

[american colleen]

The Mission Church - open all day, every day!

[Chancellor Palpatine]

When the ethnics moved 10-20 miles out in droves, they broke their old cultural neighborhood patterns.

For example, take an urban block that is, for the sake of argument, 90% Roman Catholic. In the east, there would be a heavy ethnic predominance toward one type, in the midwest, somewhat mixed. Nonetheless, as the calendar ticked round, nearly everybody on the block was observing particular cultural traditions on the same day. The adults and kids talked about it, prepared for it, and would even mix households and celebrate some things together.

Move 40% of that block out to the new suburbs surrounding Lake McMansion. All of a sudden, you don't have that common purpose and common event out at the lake - some years, they even start to forego it for other activities. And in the old neighborhood, that old ethnic and religious cohesiveness is irreparably broken, even for those who are left.

[Chancellor Palpatine]

Now, as to rural Catholic populations, the same principle applies due to selloffs and breakups of the family farm. There is no more status quo to keep.

[Bigg Red]

That too is part of the cultural collapse of Catholicism.

**
And of society, in general.

[ultima ratio]

When the Churches went liberal, so too did the society in general. This is a chicken-egg issue. Had the Churches held the line, the family would have remained intact. But they went soft--and the rest is history.

[ultima ratio]

The Corpus Christi revival owes its popularity to traditionalists who kept the practice alive. I am glad this is catching on. But elsewhere customs are being phased out. Indult priests are being urged to lighten up, give out Communion in the hands, eliminate the Last Gospel, etc. The pressure is continual from on top. A counter-pressure is being felt from the grassroots--and it's building as bishops lose credibility and respect.

[HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity]

If you think of the "Spirit of Vatican II" as a form of gnosis through which the true meaning of the Council's documents is to be found, you will better understand why the destruction of Catholic culture took place. 29 posted on 07/10/2003 8:21 AM PDT by Loyalist

The various forms of liberalism, socialism, neo-modernism, liturgical minimalism, modernistic wreckovation architecture, and related left-wing "isms" which had afflicted liberal Catholic circles are part of the wider gnosticism in secular modern culture and really have nothing to do with Catholicism. "Third Force" pychology, Enneagrams, and Marxist Liberation Theology which were in vogue in seminary and clerical circles are classic examples. Modern ideological culture has a gnostic/totalitarian component with all the trappings of fuzzy emotionalist mystification. Hillary Clinton screaming nonsense is a good illustration of the phenomenon - angry, emotional, irrational, an incontinent fuzzy mind wandering all over the ideological landscape with an unknown destination of all kids spending the first five years of their lives under the total control of government social engineering in statist "day care" laboratories. Socialism + scientism gone amok.

[HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity]

ArrogantBustard wrote: I can imagine one saying such things of almost any classical style of church, be it Gothic, Renaissance, Byzantine, Mission, etc. Any style except modernist-minimalist-ugly. Most new churches are MMU. It's hard to develop a positive culture, to be shared with the world, around that.

Unfortunately, the people who make decisions about what kind of church building to construct, the building committees and clergy involved, frequently do not have any formal training in Catholic sacred architecture in any sound sense. The construction firms that often are contracted to do the job do not have such training either. When you build enough ugly churches, it becomes a trend. They just keep repeating the same, tired, trite, minimalist formulae. Why any bishop allows that, along with the odious wreckovation, is a strange mystery. They could stop it today, now, if they wanted to. The ridiculously absurd part is that someone thinks modernism is "progressive" or whatever. It's a joke. A well-known joke, lampooned in books and articles by architects and art historians.

[TexConfederate1861]

Pray tell me oh Latin one:

Why should Chancellor Palpatine mind his own business?
The problems discussed here affect MANY DENOMINATIONS...not
just Roman Catholic.

Or could it be something else? Perhaps hatred of Orthodox Christians for example?

It is amazing to me how I can discuss theology and the differences between our two churches with a great degree of cordiality, with my many relatives who are Roman Catholics, but on this forum I have seen more hatred than I would have ever imagined possible!

In the three weeks I have been posting, I have seen Catholics that advocate the BURNING OF HERETICS, and condone GENOCIDE......pitiful...I am quite sure that Our Lord and his Blessed Mother are looking down with approval on this scene...*SARCASM*

[Desdemona]

Perhaps it could be past history and vitriol on Catholic threads.

And when have I EVER advocated anything of what you describe against the Orthodox? I don't ever remember doing such. Frankly, all the way around it would be to our mutual benefit to settle our differences.

[Desdemona]

Oh, and I posted this for Catholics not realizing that anyone else was experiencing this.

[Maximilian]

For example, take an urban block that is, for the sake of argument, 90% Roman Catholic. In the east, there would be a heavy ethnic predominance toward one type, in the midwest, somewhat mixed. Nonetheless, as the calendar ticked round, nearly everybody on the block was observing particular cultural traditions on the same day. The adults and kids talked about it, prepared for it, and would even mix households and celebrate some things together.

Actually, your arguments are well taken, and they are virtually identical to what E. Michael Jones has been saying in several articles and books. He believes that in many cases the highway projects were deliberately steered to break up ethnic voting blocs in major cities -- usually Catholic voting blocs, but sometimes other groups as well.

[ArrogantBustard]

My parish is in the process of building a mission style church-school complex. The plan is deliberately traditional, not MMU. Please pray that the Lord bless and prosper our efforts.

[TotusTuus]

They are so determined to be inclusive of their non-Catholic students that often the word Catholic is discouraged in favor of the generic Christian.

Also, "inclusive language" Scriptures for the catechetical material (not approved), the use of "BC" and "BCE" instead of "AD" (now exactly what happened 2,000 years ago to form the origin and starting point of our calender?), and get this, "First Testament" and "Second Testament" as opposed to "Old" and "New" to apparently not offend Jewish people? The list can go on and on...

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

Four words: MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS

I am not trying to start something, really, Why post an article if you don't want debate? I do not thing his post was hateful, it was just another point of view. Becky

[TotusTuus]

Why is the candle pink?

I've heard that it is properly called "Rose" ;-)

Isn't this one of two days in the Latin Rite calender where Priests are allowed to wear rose colored vestments instead of purple? Just wondering. You know, to "lighten" things up.

[Desdemona]

Keep reading. It wasn't really about debate. And frankly, I thought the Orthodox adhered more strictly to tradition than they appearantly do. They agreed, but it didn't seem that way at first. There's so much water under the bridge it's hrd to know when there's an invasion.

I have always thought, even since I was a kid that the details of the past cannot be lost. They are what link us to Christ and the church as it has grown. I had more lament in mind than debate.

[TotusTuus]

Perhaps hatred of Orthodox Christians for example?

Is this a reference to the Eastern Orthodox?

[Desdemona]

Isn't this one of two days in the Latin Rite calender where Priests are allowed to wear rose colored vestments instead of purple? Just wondering. You know, to "lighten" things up.

Yes, but WHY? Why is this? And why can't we answer right off the tops of our heads like we should be able to.