EMBRACING TRADITION: SMALL BUT GROWING NUMBER OF CATHOLICS RETURN TO RIGID RULES, LATIN MASSES

San Jose Mercury News ^ | Fri, Jul. 04, 2003 | Lisa Fernandez

[nickcarraway]

Cynthia Hummon, left, and Cassie Hamilton recite the stations of the cross during a retreat at St. Aloysius Retreat Center.

Tucked away in the hills of Los Gatos is a conservative Catholic retreat where much of modernity is rejected: Priests wear ankle-length black cassocks, children's play structures look like ancient castles, and Mass is celebrated in Latin.

[ninenot]

There is a lot of Pope-bashing going on and it's hardly restricted to SSPX Old Rite Masses. It includes some trad-inclined priests and folks at Indult Masses.

It also includes EVERY Modernist.

Most of the complainers have never managed one single project in a business context, nor do they understand that yes, indeed, Popes make mistakes which take time to correct.

They all think that Ben Cartwright will fix it with the boys in 60 minutes, less commercials (except the Modernists, who pine for the days of Beelzebub.)

[Maximilian]

No matter the Rite, there is no power in preaching without prayer. None. A priest or deacon who doesn't pray has no core. He thinks he can "wow" the congregation by himself--like a Tom Peters in a stole. He fails to realize that it's the Holy Spirit who emboldens and empowers his words, not him. If the Spirit is not in him, he's wasting everybody's time.

Great point. And great post. This hits the nail on the head. What you are left with is the Rev. in "The Simpsons." I always think of him as the perfect representation of thinking that you can preach without the grace of the Holy Spirit. Might I suggest that this extends from the non-denominational protestants to the New Mass Catholics? The Simpsons church is not that different from a lot of New Mass parishes.

But you would never mistake it for a Latin Mass parish. The Latin Mass is the antithesis of preaching without prayer. Sometimes it might go to the extreme of prayer without preaching. But that is certainly preferable to the alternative.

[ninenot]

That's fine, but not sermon material, given yesterday's readings.

[ultima ratio]

Do Novus Ordo priests practice mental prayer? When I was in the seminary, I was surprised so little emphasis was placed on a prayer life--and this was at a major seminary. More time and trouble was taken to make sure we got our phone lines connected than assigning spiritual directors. It was first come first serve among the latter--and mine was a guy who simply liked to schmooze. I ended up getting my own director away from the seminary at a monastery nearby--but I did it on my own, on the recommendation of a friend of my father. Our weekend recollection retreats away from the seminary wound up as parties. I've mentioned many times--the Blessed Sacrament was kept in a small room in the basement--something that amazed me. You had to take a service elevator to get to it--and it was never visited, exept by myself and one other seminarian. Nothing was more disillusioning nor less inspiring than what I had experienced--and it was typical.

[Maximilian]

Not sure how I managed to post this twice -- and 4 minutes apart.

[ultima ratio]

CBS--or ABC? (Or maybe NBC or CNN.)

[Maximilian]

Which news station has the motto "We report -- You decide." Answer: The most blatantly biased news channel being broadcast.

I'm as much in the dark as ever -- that basically covers them all. "Most blatantly biased" is a tough competition. It's like judging an ugly contest between Janet Reno, Madeleine Albright and Hillary.

[ultima ratio]

Again, I don't believe you. No priest I know of attacks the Pope in catechism class--anywhere. It is almost a taboo subject. Even Bishop Williamson was shy about touching on the papacy in his visits. SSPX is well aware it would be open to charges of schism if it did so. This is a lot of malarky.

[sinkspur]

And they talk three times longer than they need to. Give me a concise 5 minute homily any day of the week over the rambling.

Well, the shorter the homily, the more talent it takes to say something meaningful.

For a bad preacher, 5 minutes are too long; I could listen to a good one for 30 minutes, and often have. Once in a while, an outstanding preacher, like Fulton Sheen comes along, and you never want him to cease.

[ultima ratio]

Read Bishop Fellay's comments I posted last night. There is not a negative reference to the Pope anywhere. You are not being straight on this. In fact, the most radical of all SSPX bishops--Williamson--speaks with the utmost caution about the Pope.

[Canticle_of_Deborah]

rofl... That's what I was going to say.

[sockmonkey]

**But you can understand, sometimes, what drives some to embrace the Traditional Mass. **

I just got back from the Post Office where I talked to someone who got tired of the liberation theology homilies, and funny muffins they bake up and call the Eucharist locally. She moved to San Antonio so she could attend the Tridentine Mass. I do believe the only Tridentine Mass that has the indult in this Archdiocese is at a Nursing Home in San Antonio-not exactly a real Parish. She attended it for about six months.
Now, she's gone SSPX. My Priest used to do the Tridentine, but the Archbishop pulled the indult. I know several people who have gone SSPX. It is curious to me (hey, I'm a convert) how the Church is a really big tent with room for all kinds of diversity. I mean in my Archdiocese there are Dignity Masses where the Archbishop has presided. Don't forget the Mariachi and Flamenco Masses, or the Neo-Pagan liturgies at the Cathedral...Oh, then there's the men who dance in loinclothes on the altar at one of the missions because of "inculturation"-oh, yes, there are so many Aztecs here we need an inculturation Mass for them. There are dancing girls in purple body stockings. There are a zillion Charismatics around here who like to mimic the actions of the Priest, wave their hands around, and get slain in the spirit.

But for those who had the rug pulled out from under them in the 60's with the NO, or for those who prefer kneeling at an altar rail, and some semblance of order, unless you attend the Anglican Use Parish, I think it's pretty much a wasteland.

If I want to get upset about something, the SSPX and who does or does not choose to attend one of their Masses is the least of my concerns.

[Maximilian]

You are not being straight on this. In fact, the most radical of all SSPX bishops--Williamson--speaks with the utmost caution about the Pope.

It's possible that slyfox encountered a priest who was not following SSPX directives. Let's be charitable and not accuse slyfox of lying, but at the same time point out that this is not standard practice for the SSPX.

I wonder if there could even be a confusion between groups? Where I live we have a Latin New Mass, an indult Mass, an SSPX chapel, an SSPV parish and a Thuc group which we refer to as the SSP two and a half. The SSPV parish and the Thuc parish would be much more likely to present anti-Vatican teachings, and they might be indistinguishable from the SSPX to the uninitiated.

[HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity]

From the article: Traditionalist Catholicism was born as a reaction to the landmark Second Vatican Council of 1962-65, when the Roman Catholic Church attempted to make the religion more accessible. For example, Catholic leaders said Mass can be celebrated in any language of the people; women can perform some liturgical duties; and celebrants can receive the Eucharist sacrament from lay people instead of priests. Traditionalists object to all of those changes.

I've never been a member of a traditionalist organization and I accept Mass in the vernacular while liking Latin and Gregorian chant. This article seems to trivialize what are actually much more complicated issues. There are places where it is actually the Novus Ordo Catholics who have departed from the faith. When I worked for a Catholic university it was ridiculous the outrages that Catholics were subjected to, all under the approving eyes of the local bishop. The Second Vatican Council did not grant a license for liberal Catholics to change everything under the sun. The Church could not possibly be merged with every aspect of modern culture and liberal secular ideologies. Where liberal modernist Catholics have believed that the purpose of conciliar documents was to fuse the Church with all the trendy fads of modern culture, the faith has suffered.

Even Episcopalians and some Protestants have pointed out the follies of liberal modernist Catholicism. The jokes about Why Catholics Can't Sing are hard not to come across in even ecumenical theological circles. Richard Neuhaus, not exactly an SSPX type, commented rather recently on the travesty of N.O. styles of worship. Even liberals like Garry Wills and Andrew Greeley have pointed out the folly of the "gaying" of the seminaries. There is nothing "odd" about disliking New Agey folk music, political speeches as "sermons," bad modern art and architecture, feminist nuns, and homosexual activists in pulpits, sacristies, seminaries, and chanceries. It's very understandable, in fact, it's howlingly obvious why some Catholics have looked elsewhere for a moral and spiritual compass. The standard diet served at Jesuit colleges and universities, where a lot of the goofier and trendier tendencies have been spawned, is NOT "Catholic." In fact, some of the spiritual pranksters are members of anti-Catholic secret societies. No mention of this in the article. There's no mention of postconciliar "Liberation Theology" either, a movement in the 1970s and 1980s which tried to pass off socialism and Communism as the essence of Catholic Christianity. Did it mention The Vagina Monologues at Catholic colleges? Being forced to listen to Godspell? And other North-Korean-mind-control-style peculiarities that liberals just never seem to be able to get enough of...? Enneagrams? Burlap and felt? The StarTrek architecture of suburban parish "building committees"? I guess one has to be an ultratraditionalist extremist not to like that?

Strumming a guitar at church or a pastor entertaining the parish with jokes are seen as silly if not sacrilegious. "Strumming a guitar at church or a pastor entertaining the parish with jokes..." My, my...What would we do without the Joan Baez and Phil Donahue imitators directing the "liturgy"?

This article presents a false dichotomy, as if one had to choose between accepting all of the modernistic liberalism of the most goofy stylistic 1960s Amerikan interpretations of Vatican II and the most extreme version of schismatic traditionalism. That people have been rejecting the former in great numbers is no secret. The socialist-pro-sodomy-spaceship-architecture-folk-mass gnosticism that has been on parade now for some time with little action from some bishops is not "Catholic." No one can make it so just by saying it. The rhetorical sleight of hand which underlies the guiding thesis of the article adds to the confusion. No one can require Catholics to bow down to cultural modernism as if that is gospel.

[ultima ratio]

Wow. Well done! The truth is powerful.

[ultima ratio]

Mel Gibson's film is an orthodox rendition of the Passion--something that clearly interferes with the exaggerated ecumenism that eminates out of modernist quarters, particularly as it concerns the Jews. This is what makes AmChurch bishops nervous--they don't want the truths of the Passion bruited about, they want it suppressed in much the same way they have suppressed Catholic dogmas in the Novus Ordo. The bishops don't so much deny the truth as try to ignore it--and it is painful for them when others don't do the same.

Traditionalists not only don't ignore the truth, they shout it out from the rooftops--which is for modernists pretty unsettling. It's pretty hard to pretend Christ was NOT a sign of contradiction when it is obvious He was just this then as much as now. The bishops would much prefer that the truths of Catholicism be hidden and eventually be allowed to fade away through a studied lack of catechesis over several generations--in the interest of political correctness and leftwing ideology. This is why they have engineered a liturgy that disguises Catholic dogmas in an alien theology and rubrics.

[Slyfox]

Malarkey, eh? I was faithfully attending hoping to be spiritually inspired and the priest turned me off. It was as annoying as going to a clown mass.

Now, the Church-sanctioned Peter bunch are all right in my book.

[ultima ratio]

My doubt about what you say is prompted by certain inconsistencies. First you claimed you were turned off by certain "conversations" you overheard after Mass. Then you claim it was a priest who was catechizing and knocking the Pope. Since I've never experienced anything similar in my years of experience--though I am myself critical of the Pope--I doubted you. If I did so unfairly, I apologize--but your experience was certainly atypical.

[Slyfox]

Why do I get the feeling I am on an anti-Catholic thread?

[HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity]

Interesting that you mention that transitive buzzword "inculturation". If one were to approach the cultural traditionalism of traditionalist Catholics as if they were the mission territory in a foreign country, wouldn't Jesuits probably extend the same courtesies they have for Hindus and Buddhists? The cultural and aesthetic modernism that was embraced in the wake of Vatican II is actually NOT the native culture of many American Catholics. I feel culturally a lot more at home in a Gothic church animated with Latin Chant than in an art deco supermall with Eminem music playing over the loud speaker. The post-1960s modernism of the Spirit of Vatican II has been more social engineering than "inculturation."

A lot of these issues are matters of cultural and aesthetic preference, engaging the emotions of the Catholics in question. There is nothing essentially required that Catholic life in America should be a carbon copy of the various modern styles of symbolization and communication found in most suburbs. A liberal priest lecturing to a congregation on some consciousness-raising homily topic as part of a Mass stripped of traditional Catholic iconography is a very left-brained concept of worship. Whose culture does "liturgical minimalism" reflect?