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RECOVERING THE TRUTH & A COMING TO A CORRECT UNDERSTANDING OF JESUS
Bet Emet Ministries ^ | Unknown | Craig Lyons

Posted on 07/01/2003 10:22:12 AM PDT by ksen

RECOVERING THE TRUTH & A COMING TO A CORRECT UNDERSTANDING OF JESUS

Jesus and all his followers were Jews who were faithful to Biblical Judaism and never intended to separate from or start a new religion; after their deaths the Gentile Christian church will condemn the Jewish Christians as heretics...in time fruit of the Jewish Church (Gentile Christianity) will destroy it's mother

We have a unique paradox in Biblical history; one which touches every follower of Jesus yet today and which reaches to the very core of our own culture and time. It is impossible to understand Jesus or his message until we come to a correct understanding of the events that fashioned such persecution of the Jews by the Gentile believers and which contributed to the alteration of the faith of Jesus as can be found to have existed in the first century of Second Temple Judaism. As stated earlier the first and greatest division in the early church concerned the relationship of the followers of Jesus to Judaism; it shaped everything that was to follow. One of the greatest problems facing Christianity today is how to reconcile what it has become with G-d's intended vision for the Gentile nations of the world whereby they become part of the Israel of G-d and not "replace" it with a religion of their own creation. The answers for such a problem come only when one personally acquaints himself with an unbiased presentation of the facts of the tragic events of this part of Biblical history and traces the repercussions of such events down through the corridors of history and ultimately seeing the shock waves from them that are present in our own religious beliefs systems and cultures of today.

Today many scholars tell us the truth today about the early church and courageously break from "church traditions" and "mind control" to present the facts concerning these "events" and the corruption of the early faith of the historical Jesus by the Gentile "converts" who would later steer the direction of this "faith" throughout recorded history. It is so simple today to find this information, but sadly few look or even know the need to see if "they be in the faith." That being the case, we accept the "spin" of religious leaders down through history and the real message of Jesus is never heard, or at best, is overlooked for more "orthodox teachings" espoused which have taken it's place. Keith Akers, in his The Lost Religion of Jesus, states the case as well as any. Jewish Christianity consisted of those early Christians who followed the teachings of Jesus, as they understood him, and also remained loyal to the Jewish law of Moses as they understood it. Messianic Judaism was not to replace Judaism with a new faith; it was the goal and zenith for which the prophets wrote and hoped. This simple statement is of profound importance, because the Jewish Christians were eventually rejected both by orthodox Judaism and by orthodox Gentile Christianity. The understanding of the Jewish follower of Jesus was not that of orthodox Christianity (as it came to be where Jesus is seen more like the sun-g-dmen of the Gentile nations than a human messiah). Likewise the Jewish follower of Jesus possessed an understanding of the law of Moses that was the same as orthodox Judaism, but yet this view would later be rejected under the influence of Paul and his churches. Jerome's celebrated comment in the fourth century summarizes this dual rejection: "As long as they seek to be both Jews and Christians, they are neither Jews nor Christians" [Letter 112] (Akers, The Lost Religion of Jesus, p. 7).

The Jewish Christians considered Jesus to be the "true prophet" who would lead the people back to the eternal law that commanded simple living and nonviolence. They saw in Jesus their hopes for physical redemption and the fulfillment of the prophets. It was their hope that the Law would go forth from Zion with Jesus at its head as the long awaited Messiah and King of Israel. It was their hope that the enemies of Israel would be vanquished by the word of this anointed one of the LORD as taught in the Psalms of Solomon (no not the psalms you are familiar with but a separate Jewish books that was recognized by Jews as authoritative in the first century). The law, which was cherished by all G-dfearing Jews, had been given to Moses; indeed, it had existed from the beginning of the world, and was intended to be cherished and observed by both Jew and non-Jew alike because in the Commandments one finds the unique Covenant stipulations of his Covenant before G-d. In sharp contrast with the gentile Christian movement, which emerged in the wake of Paul's teaching, Jewish Christianity strove to make the Jewish law stricter than the Jewish tradition seemed to teach ("you have heard it said but I say unto you...'much more'"). Such was the Jesus' love for G-d and His Word. But this cannot be said for the Gentile churches which strove to find ways to lay aside the law for the laxity that was taught under the disguise of "grace." In other words, the non-Jews loved the large "gray areas" that came from the teaching of Paul and others who negated the Law through their own personal "revelations" and their own personal "gospels" (Paul is found saying in Rom 2:16 16: In the day when G-d shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel and again in 2 Tim 2:8 8: Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel). It is a little early in this article to address this concept but if you study continues you will reach a point in your understanding and knowledge where you will see beyond any doubt that the "gospel of Paul" replaced the "gospel of Jesus and Judaism."

Jewish Christianity is the blind spot in virtually all accounts of Jesus. Everyone agrees that Jesus was a Jew and that his initial followers were Jews. Yet of the thousands of books written about Jesus, almost none acknowledge the central importance of Jewish Christianity; at least until the end of the previous century and the beginning of the present one. That was true up until the latter part of the last century when Jewish, as well as European scholars began to reevaluate the Jewish Jesus and contrast the Historical Jesus with the Christ of Faith. There are many who are eager to focus specifically on the Jewishness of Jesus, until they get to the point of examining those of his followers who, like their teacher, were also Jewish, and in doing so see for themselves that actually nothing really changed within this community of the closest followers of Jesus until the early fourth century when Rome would effectively destroy the Jewish "followers of Jesus" by declaring them official heretics. The power of Rome would propagate a Gentile understanding and not a Jewish understanding of Jesus (see Constantine's Easter letter if you have any doubts).

The "Jewishness" of these early Christians does not refer to their ethnic group or nationality, but rather to their beliefs. Paul was a convert to Judaism (H. Maccoby, The Mythmaker, Paul And The Invention Of Christianity) and only later converted to Judaism; first a Sadducee, and after rejection by the Chief Priest he turned to the Pharisees, again only to be rejected by them for his prior cruelty to them as an agent of the Temple police who routed them out and killed them (the Messianic believing strict branch of the Pharisees called Nazarenes/Essenes). Paul also preaches freedom from the law and therefore explicitly rejects Jewish beliefs. Paul, and some of the other Jews who became Christians, renounced the law of Moses and, therefore, were not part of Jewish Christianity. The churches of Paul today (vast majority of Christianity as it exists today) lay outside the true faith of Jesus and will continue to do so unless they encounter the truth about this man of Galilee and the truth about their own religious history.

Without understanding Jewish Messianic Judaism or "intended Christianity", we cannot understand the historical Jesus let alone the earliest church nor the corruption of it within the New Testament correctly. Lacking this knowledge we are doomed to misinterpret most of what we read in the New Testament and our worship let alone our conduct will be in error...much of which is defined as sin in the Torah.


TOPICS: Apologetics; General Discusssion; Theology; Worship
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To: Invincibly Ignorant; ksen
To my mind, if you cast doubt on some of the New Testament, then you cast doubt on the whole thing.

I agree, ksen! If it is "not all", as Invincibly has suggested by stating "Why does it have to be all or nothing? ", then which one of you will tell me "authoritatively" that what I am reading is the "word of God".

21 posted on 07/01/2003 11:13:12 AM PDT by ThomasMore
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To: Invincibly Ignorant
In a nutshell, the doctrine of hereditary sin teaches we are born with INHERITED sin. It teaches that at birth a baby is despicably wicked and full of sin, which includes the "original sin" in the Garden of Eden! It makes each of us accountable for the sins of all our ancestors and considers sin a hereditary trait.

I think that guy better look in a different nutshell, because he picked up the wrong one.

22 posted on 07/01/2003 11:20:50 AM PDT by ksen (HHD;FRM - Entmoot or Bust!)
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To: ThomasMore
I agree, ksen! If it is "not all", as Invincibly has suggested by stating "Why does it have to be all or nothing? ", then which one of you will tell me "authoritatively" that what I am reading is the "word of God".

I'll go one step further than that. By what standard do detractors determine which portions are true (or correctly translated, or contain the "true events", etc etc etc), and which are false/mistranslated/made up? How do those standards hold up when applied to more ancient manuscripts of the same works?

23 posted on 07/01/2003 11:23:48 AM PDT by Alex Murphy (Athanasius contra mundum!)
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To: ThomasMore; ksen
I agree, ksen! If it is "not all", as Invincibly has suggested by stating "Why does it have to be all or nothing? ", then which one of you will tell me "authoritatively" that what I am reading is the "word of God".

I suggest we do like the Bereans and let the Tenhak tell us what's authoritative and what's not.

Acts 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

The scriptures they were searching certainly weren't orthodox NT scriptures.

24 posted on 07/01/2003 11:24:54 AM PDT by Invincibly Ignorant
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To: Alex Murphy
I'll go one step further than that. By what standard do detractors determine which portions are true (or correctly translated, or contain the "true events", etc etc etc), and which are false/mistranslated/made up? How do those standards hold up when applied to more ancient manuscripts of the same works?

See number 24.

25 posted on 07/01/2003 11:25:48 AM PDT by Invincibly Ignorant
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To: Invincibly Ignorant
Stephen,

Did you ever think you would stop thinking Jesus is God a year ago?

What makes you think that in another year you won't be denying the New Testament is God's Word and posting portions of Craig Lyons' web site for supporting info?
26 posted on 07/01/2003 11:31:10 AM PDT by ksen (HHD;FRM - Entmoot or Bust!)
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To: Invincibly Ignorant
Though he may deny it, one of the most treacherous, bitterly anti-Paul and anti-New Testament, subtle, and deceitful sueEb hyena pack leaders is Craig Lyons of Bet Emet ministries. He lures people into his site presenting himself as a searching Christian, even as he condemns all things with the slightest scent of Christianity. He falsifies himself often as a Christian, even though he is actually a VERY stauch antiChristian, to disarm those previously mentioned whose faith is in a weakened state and who are looking for guidance. His methods are a textbook example of deception. This is yet one of many ways he uses subtlety and deception throughout his spider’s web-world of trickery. I never cease to be amazed at his shamelessness and treacherously hidden agenda. His teachings are a mirror image of the general sueEb principles; therefore, anything I say about them applies to him and vice versa. His specialty is boiling frogs. More on this later.

Steve do you understand that most of us here do not think he is anymore lost than you are...different branches of the same doctrinally corrupt tree.

27 posted on 07/01/2003 11:33:03 AM PDT by RnMomof7
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To: Invincibly Ignorant
Why does it have to be all or nothing? You've never cut a bad part off of a potato? If you dare read "the Orthodox Corruption of Scripture". Just a little proof for ya that when it came to the scibes disdain for adoptionists and adoptionists viewpoints that there were some scribal corruptions. No reason to throw out the rest of the highly reliabe NT writings.

Once you deny the inerrency of any portion of scripture you cast the total of it into doubt. It becomes every man picking and choosing what they want to believe..

Either the Holy Spirit inspired the entire text and preserved the text or none of it is worth anything

28 posted on 07/01/2003 11:36:41 AM PDT by RnMomof7
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To: ksen
Here is an example of the duplicity of people who attempt to use the NT after they have declared it to be corrupt:

ksen ~ I am... claiming the NT is corrupted.....

Note how I make you say the exact opposite of what you actually said. These people are just as shallow in their arguments.

Woody.
29 posted on 07/01/2003 11:43:24 AM PDT by CCWoody
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To: ksen
What makes you think that in another year you won't be denying the New Testament is God's Word and posting portions of Craig Lyons' web site for supporting info?

What makes you think you won't? Go ahead. Attack my credibility because I realize what I've believed for 30 years to be error. What would have me do? Not act upon it? That would be hypocritical. Yeshua's creed was the "Shema". "The Lord our God is One". The great delusion is that millions worship the created instead of the Creator. Sorry, I've left that camp with no apologies. I encourage you to refute with facts instead of lame attempts to cast dispersions on one's stability. You're better than that.

30 posted on 07/01/2003 11:43:47 AM PDT by Invincibly Ignorant
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To: RnMomof7
Once you deny the inerrency of any portion of scripture you cast the total of it into doubt. It becomes every man picking and choosing what they want to believe..

Either the Holy Spirit inspired the entire text and preserved the text or none of it is worth anything

Just because it tilts your feeble brain. I assure you I can handle it. I can say on one hand you disdain papacy, apostolic succession, pepetual virginity of Mary, etc., etc.. But you're right there to defend counsels of Binatarianism and Trinity. All or nothing sweetie.

31 posted on 07/01/2003 11:46:42 AM PDT by Invincibly Ignorant
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To: RnMomof7
Steve do you understand that most of us here do not think he is anymore lost than you are...different branches of the same doctrinally corrupt tree.

Sure I understand that. I'd actually be worried if you thought I was saved.

32 posted on 07/01/2003 11:47:50 AM PDT by Invincibly Ignorant
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To: Alex Murphy; ThomasMore
I'll go one step further than that. By what standard do detractors determine which portions are true (or correctly translated, or contain the "true events", etc etc etc), and which are false/mistranslated/made up? How do those standards hold up when applied to more ancient manuscripts of the same works?

Exactly

We see an attack on the credibility of scripture from all the lost. That is WHY they are lost.

33 posted on 07/01/2003 11:52:40 AM PDT by RnMomof7
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To: CCWoody; ksen; RnMomof7; Calvinist_Dark_Lord
These people are just as shallow in their arguments.

Maybe so! Yet, Invincibly Ignorant AKA Steven, has raised a point (even though he is apostate to the Christian faith) that every one of us who believe in the absolute inerrancy of the NT have to ask ourselves. How do we know that all 27 books and no more and no less are the inerrant word of God and the scores of other writings bearing Apostolic names are not?

Why are we right and Invincibly wrong?

34 posted on 07/01/2003 11:56:20 AM PDT by ThomasMore
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To: Invincibly Ignorant
Are you saying you believe or agree with this screed? Or are you just quoting from another (unreferenced) source?
35 posted on 07/01/2003 11:56:33 AM PDT by nobdysfool (Let God be true, and every man a liar...)
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To: RnMomof7
We see an attack on the credibility of scripture from all the lost. That is WHY they are lost.

That's one thing those good for nothing Catholics got right. /sarcasm. Those scribes might have messed up on their Marian theology, purgatory, and indulgences but by golly they certainly let God guide their pen without error.

36 posted on 07/01/2003 11:57:33 AM PDT by Invincibly Ignorant
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To: nobdysfool
whats a screed?
37 posted on 07/01/2003 11:58:07 AM PDT by Invincibly Ignorant
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To: Invincibly Ignorant; RnMomof7
whats a screed?

Alright, I'll state it plainly: toilet paper.

Actually in reading other posts, I've already got the answer to my questions. I have neither the time, or inclination to deal with willfully deceived, and spiritually ignorant junk such as what was posted. The diatribe against Calvinism is, rather than an indictment of it, clear proof that Total Depravity exists, and the author is a prime example of it.

38 posted on 07/01/2003 12:03:20 PM PDT by nobdysfool (Let God be true, and every man a liar...)
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To: nobdysfool
I have neither the time, or inclination to deal with willfully deceived,

Pot & Kettle alert.

39 posted on 07/01/2003 12:09:03 PM PDT by Invincibly Ignorant
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To: Invincibly Ignorant; ksen
What makes you think you won't? Go ahead. Attack my credibility because I realize what I've believed for 30 years to be error. What would have me do? Not act upon it? That would be hypocritical. Yeshua's creed was the "Shema". "The Lord our God is One". The great delusion is that millions worship the created instead of the Creator. Sorry, I've left that camp with no apologies. I encourage you to refute with facts instead of lame attempts to cast dispersions on one's stability. You're better than that.

Steve your heresy is nothing new to the church. It is not some grand "discovery" . I do not think you ever has a born again experience , or you would know that Jesus is God the Son. You would not be blown around with every wind of doctrine. I quote the words of John.

1Jo 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would [no doubt] have continued with us: but [they went out], that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

You have been wandering around looking for a religion that would satisfy you , not the truth .

I agree with Kevin. Today it is this and tomorrow it will be something else.

I do not say that to you to be unkind, I would like you to consider the source of the book you read and then consider the scholarship of the men in the church councils that decried those heresies.The Shema proves the trinity to one that has open eyes

40 posted on 07/01/2003 12:09:03 PM PDT by RnMomof7
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