Pope Again Reaches Out to Orthodox Church

Herald Tribune ^ | June 30, 2003

[NYer]

VATICAN CITY Pope John Paul II again reached out to the Orthodox Church on Sunday, saying his efforts at reconciliation weren't just "ecclesiastic courtesy" but a sign of his profound desire to unite the Orthodox and Roman Catholic churches.

John Paul made the comments during his regular appearance to pilgrims and tourists in St. Peter's Square. Later Sunday, he welcomed a delegation from the Ecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople at a traditional Mass marking the feast day of St. Peter and St. Paul.

"The exchange of delegations between Rome and Constantinople, for the respective patron feasts, goes beyond just an act of ecclesiastic courtesy," the pontiff said. "It reflects the profound and rooted intention to re-establish the full communion between East and West."

John Paul has made improving relations with the Orthodox Church a hallmark of his nearly 25-year papacy, visiting several mostly Orthodox countries and expressing regret for the wrongs committed by the Catholic Church against Orthodox Christians.

Despite his efforts at healing the 1,000-year-old schism, he hasn't yet visited Russia because of objections from the Russian Orthodox Church.

During the Mass on Sunday, 42 new archbishops received the pallium, a band of white wool decorated with black crosses that symbolizes their bond with the Vatican. Two of the archbishops received the pallium in their home parishes; the rest took part in the Mass in St. Peter's Basilica.

[katnip]

This Hermann fella makes me laugh.

If you post something from a Catholic website to refute his claims, he says "Well, the Catholic Encyclopedia is not particularly trustworthy source in all matters"

If you refute using Orthodox info he calls it "distorted summaries by Orthodox polemicists"

Funny stuff..

[George W. Bush]

John Paul has made improving relations with the Orthodox Church a hallmark of his nearly 25-year papacy, visiting several mostly Orthodox countries and expressing regret for the wrongs committed by the Catholic Church against Orthodox Christians.

Well, we can consider if he's sincere when he visits Croatia and tells them to stop glorifying the Ustashe Catholics who, in alliance with Nazis, persecuted and murdered 2 million Serb Orthodox. Until he does that forcefully, the rest of his act is just a dog-and-pony show for gullible rubes.

[Chancellor Palpatine]

Franziskaner Hefe Weiss may be the best beer I ever had.

Can't agree with you on Old Granddad. I found a new love - Woodford Reserve.

[MarMema]

when he visits Croatia and tells them to stop glorifying the Ustashe Catholics

And this is his biggest sin, that of beatifying Stepinac. I think he knew better and did it anyway, but then everyone knows I haven't had much positive to say about this pope. LOL.

Did you see the other thread where I posted from Jewish persecution sites about the current Croatians?

[George W. Bush]

...should I post the photo again, photo of pope kissing koran?

Of course. These threads just aren't complete without at least one copy of that photo on them.

I enjoyed your tagline "Hristos: the Light of the World".

[RussianConservative]

Thank you....I not sure if you meant sarcasm/joke or serious...actually I posted it already, earlier. My point of that whole photo is counter to arguments that that man infallable and not make mistakes.....ha....hardly.

[ArrogantBustard]

counter to arguments that that man infallable and not make mistakes

You should learn the difference between "infallible" and "impeccable". Once you learn that distinction you will be able to discuss this matter without appearing to be an ignorant idiot. You will also learn that the personal holiness and good prudential judgement (or lack thereof) of a particular Pope have no bearing on the matter of Papal Infallibility.

[Ethan Clive Osgoode]

This link buries the East-Orthodox side of the debate.

[RussianConservative]

So you tell me that a corrupt pope, he can still make infallibale declarations? Considering level ignorant stupidity dumped by catholics on thread you have little room talk. We have one who says all must bend knee to any earthly authority no matter evil, other says war is good way for conversion all make stupid comments on Orthodoxy and not figure out that we want to be left alone and will never bend knee to YOUR popes. Why that so hard for you to grasp? Why? If you want live like good neighbors or brothers, respect our faith, we respect yours and don't even think of trying convert us...if you want war and destruction....keep up attitudes you now have, you'll get your come uponse.

[RussianConservative]

Problem all of you is stupid ignorance of reality...we not try to convince you that your corrupt popes should be patriarchs...live let live, you make enemies of us by trying to make us your pope's slaves...not going to work. I now understand why protestants hate you so much...sure you do same with them.

[RussianConservative]

Yah, he avoids any of bs arguments with me now I post his own site to say what he does is wrong...he runs.

[ArrogantBustard]

I'm not doing your homework for you.

Show me that you understand the meaning of the words "infallible" and "impeccable", particularly in Catholic ecclesiastical context. Then we'll talk. Until then, you're just gibbering.

[MarMema]

buries the East-Orthodox side of the debate

I think, instead, that the history of your popes buries the roman catholic side of the debate. Most people agree that behavior speaks louder than words.

[Ethan Clive Osgoode]

Problem all of you is stupid ignorance of reality...

"...O arch-shepherd of the church... save us now... For if they, usurping an authority which does not belong to them, have dared to convene a heretical council, whereas those who follow ancient custom do not even have the right of convening an orthodox one without your knowledge, it seems absolutely necessary, we dare to say to you, that your divine primacy should call together a lawful council, so that the Catholic dogma may drive out heresy and that your primacy may neither be anathematized by these new voices lacking authority... It is in order to obey your divine authority as chief pastor that we have set forth these things as it befitted our nothingness..." - St. Theodore the Studite to Pope Leo III [PG 99: 1017-21]

"... O apostolic head, divinely established shepherd of Christ?s sheep, doorkeeper of the heavenly kingdom, rock of the faith on which the Catholic Church has been built. For you are Peter-- you are the successor of Peter, whose throne you grace and direct... To you did Christ our God say, "When you have been converted, strengthen your brethren." Now is the time and the place: help us, you who have been established by God for that purpose..." St. Theodore the Studite to Pope Paschal [PG 99: 1152-3]

we not try to convince you that your corrupt popes should be patriarchs...

Instead, convince us why corrupt KGB agents should be patriarchs.

[katnip]

Instead, convince us why corrupt KGB agents should be patriarchs.

Why would anyone want to do that?

www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/939932/posts

[Ethan Clive Osgoode]

Why would anyone want to do that?

I don't know.

[katnip]

Is anyone saying his word is infallible and may not be questioned?

[RussianConservative]

Oh, like Catholic priesthood in S. America who support soviet or worse communism? Or priesthood in facist country who like and support facists? Catholic hands to dirty to start poking.

[Ethan Clive Osgoode]

Oh, like Catholic priesthood in S. America who support soviet or worse communism? Or priesthood in facist country who like and support facists? Catholic hands to dirty to start poking.

Ok, so you prefer a Patriarch who is a KGB agent. Good to know where you stand.

[RussianConservative]

Still more demoralizing, however, is that the same double standard has been at work within the Catholic Church since the close of the Second Vatican Council (1962–65). In our new book Chris Ferrara and I list one case after another of bizarre, unheard-of novelties that have to be read to be believed but that are positively encouraged by the bishops. What, on the other hand, of the traditional Latin Mass that formed the piety of Catholic faithful for over 1500 years and to which the saints and pre-conciliar popes were so devoted? Those bishops who do allow it in a parish or two often forbid any advertising and do nothing to encourage attendance. Charismatic hysteria, polka Masses, teen Masses – as long as no one had ever heard of it before 1965, the bishops promote it vigorously. Just as in the secular culture, anything goes but tradition. Catholics have witnessed the emergence of post-conciliar correctness in the Church – the ecclesial analogue of political correctness. In our book we make the case that this ecclesial version of PC has produced the greatest crisis in the Church’s history. The sheltering of homosexual priests by the bishops, who will not even consider following the Vatican’s 1961 instruction barring the ordination of homosexuals, is but one result of PC at work in the Church.

Practically anyone receives more pastoral attention and concern from the bishops than traditional Catholics. Cardinal Law, for example, finds time to attend ordinations of Anglican clergy despite the fact that over a century ago Pope Leo XIII declared Anglican orders invalid. His Eminence is "too busy" to say the traditional Latin Mass once a year for the people at his indult (traditional Mass) parish, but doggone it he’s going to get to that interfaith picnic if it’s the last thing he does.

I remember as an undergraduate a guy who was active in the Republican Club and very well known around campus: we’ll call him Mark Dalton. Mark was always sure to let everyone know he favored "responsible" candidates, and that he considered Pat Buchanan akin to Satan – language he wouldn’t have dreamed of using to describe anyone on the political Left, whom he considered his honorable adversaries. Mark was a "compassionate conservative." Never once did he depart from the plantation of correct opinion to which the campus Left had relegated his kind.

And guess what. On Commencement Day the Harvard Crimson featured a long puff piece, complete with photos, called "Mark Dalton: The ‘Nice Republican.’" Meanwhile, one of my own friends, an authentic conservative, was savagely attacked by the same paper one Commencement Day later. I wonder why.

People like Mark Dalton, generally known as neoconservatives, are in effect the watchdogs of the liberal revolution. Much as they may think themselves opponents of liberalism, they don’t actually conserve anything other than liberal gains. Moreover, by attacking real conservatives they both harm the cause of authentic conservatism and, not coincidentally, manage to ingratiate themselves with the establishment.