Pope Again Reaches Out to Orthodox Church

Herald Tribune ^ | June 30, 2003

[NYer]

VATICAN CITY Pope John Paul II again reached out to the Orthodox Church on Sunday, saying his efforts at reconciliation weren't just "ecclesiastic courtesy" but a sign of his profound desire to unite the Orthodox and Roman Catholic churches.

John Paul made the comments during his regular appearance to pilgrims and tourists in St. Peter's Square. Later Sunday, he welcomed a delegation from the Ecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople at a traditional Mass marking the feast day of St. Peter and St. Paul.

"The exchange of delegations between Rome and Constantinople, for the respective patron feasts, goes beyond just an act of ecclesiastic courtesy," the pontiff said. "It reflects the profound and rooted intention to re-establish the full communion between East and West."

John Paul has made improving relations with the Orthodox Church a hallmark of his nearly 25-year papacy, visiting several mostly Orthodox countries and expressing regret for the wrongs committed by the Catholic Church against Orthodox Christians.

Despite his efforts at healing the 1,000-year-old schism, he hasn't yet visited Russia because of objections from the Russian Orthodox Church.

During the Mass on Sunday, 42 new archbishops received the pallium, a band of white wool decorated with black crosses that symbolizes their bond with the Vatican. Two of the archbishops received the pallium in their home parishes; the rest took part in the Mass in St. Peter's Basilica.

[RussianConservative]

He like the rest will not answer such question...even site he give as "evidence" admonish his very behavior...typical blind and obidient without thinking. They not get point to leave us so war it always will be. They are like stupid children who keep poking when told not to and keep poking until slapped across face, then they cry and throw fit about what bad peoples we are....and soon start poking again.

[RussianConservative]

We want unity to mean we live together in peace in the same Church.

Are you really so stupid or pretend? Your unity under your man-god is not what we want...go away.

[RussianConservative]

I dare say that the recipe for union is one part Papal humility mixed with one part Orthodox acceptance.

Wrong, it one part Papal imperialism and one part Orthodox enslavement. Screw that. Go away and leave us alone.

[Aquinasfan]

Because our unity is spiritual, we do not consider these significant.

This is where we part company, because using artificial methods to thwart God's means for bringing new souls into the world represents very grave matter to me.

Where you see "spiritual unity," I see indifference to contradiction.

[MarMema]

My quote above was referring to the differences in our liturgy, regarding the use of the royal doors, not contraception. Please do not make it look as if I said something I did not.

I am sure there are Orthodox who agree with you. In the Orthodox church you would be perfectly free to not use birth control. It is not an issue for me, having not ever faced the question - we wanted a large family and were unable to conceive after a first pregnancy. LOL, we only stopped adopting because we ran out of money. :-)

[TexConfederate1861]

Well, first of all, not everything the Western fathers did was heretical, Tertullian was a heretic, but some of his writings were quite profound. Augustine certainly had his problems as well...But I gave you PROOF that Gregory the Great did NOT subscribe to the filioque. The fact is, until the western Church tried to convert Spain, it was never used in the west. The bottom line is this. The Councils pronounced ANETHEMAS on ANYONE who added or took away from the creed. The West agreed to this, but the later Popes chose to make an issue of this as a reason to assert their pretended primacy. Hermann, you are wasting your breath trying to convince me. I have more knowledge and sources on these subjects, and You still haven't answered my questions regarding YOUR OWN POPE, Gregory the Great. You cannot ignore what he said and did, and furthermore, YOU KNOW IT! You are over your head on this, so admit it, and bow out gracefully. You have the right to your own beliefs, but don't think you are going to convert the Orthodox....

[TexConfederate1861]

The words "Changing these Gifts by thy Holy Spirit, Amen, Amen, Amen," are the words that are needed for the changing of the gifts. And the West chooses to leave them out.....

[RussianConservative]

So where was the great Orthodox missionary imperitive from 1054 to say, around 1830?

Lets see: Siberia
China
Korea
Japan
Alaska
NW America
Kenya
S. Africa
Sudan
And that just tip.

[MarMema]

With all due repect, it was Charlemagne who requested it of the pope at the time according to my sources.

That may be true, but the theory is from Augustine.

Try a google search with the words "Augustine double procession".

[B-Chan]

History refresher: The Papal States

[TexConfederate1861]

If you insert the filioque in the Creed, you are in direct contradiction of the Ecumenical Councils, and YES...that is HERESY!

[RussianConservative]

I'll address forcibly converting Serbs another time.

Oh, when? When think up good fantasy story?

[ArrogantBustard]

Your unity under your man-god is not what we want...go away.

Fascinating. Only one person may be called man-god: Jesus of Nazareth, the Christ, the Son of the Living God. And we most certainly do claim Him. If you don't want Him, you've serious problems ...

[katnip]

The History of the Serbs according to Herman will at least be amusing eh?

[RussianConservative]

Was the liberation of the Holy Land and the Christians of Antioch and Edessa and Jerusalem an evil "war of conquest"?

Ahh yes, where all Muslims, Jews and Orthodox Christians butchered in Jerusalem, where by own crusader accounts blood was ankle deep and piles of bodies laid everywhere...yes, you be proud of butchers work. One thing to take city, another to the excesses of Crusades.

[MarMema]

Dostoevsky - which few Americans bother to read but all Russians read.

""Pavlishchev was a clear–headed man and a Christian, a true Christian," the prince declared suddenly. "How could he submit to a faith—that is unchristian? Catholicism . . . is no more than an unchristian faith . . . even worse than atheism. . . . Atheism only preaches nullity, but Catholicism goes further; it preaches a distorted Christ, a Christ it has calumnied and defamed, the opposite of Christ! It preaches the Antichrist. . . . Roman Catholicism believes the Church cannot remain on earth without universal temporal power. . . . [It] is not even a religion but very definitely the continuation of the Holy Roman Empire, and everything in it is subservient to that idea, beginning with faith. The Pope usurped the earth, an earthly throne, and took up the sword, and since then everything has been going on that way, except that to the sword they have added craft, deceit, fanaticism, superstition, villainy. . . . They have bartered everything, everything for money, for base earthly power. And isn’t that the teaching of Antichrist? (snip) . . ."

[MarMema]

The point being that both Tolstoy and Dostoevsky have put forth the idea of the pope as a god-man...because of the Rc doctrine of infallibility.

[RussianConservative]

You damned well know, I refer to your "infallable" priest king, you try to splice words like some bad lawyer.

[ArrogantBustard]

Is "Pavlishchev" Russian for "Jack Chick"?

Hmm... "Pavel" is "Paul", so that must be "Pavel Chickev", Jack's Russki cousin.

[ArrogantBustard]

I refer to your "infallable" priest king,

You mean the Pope? Then say so in plain language; your inflammatory rhetoric is not conducive to rational discussion.

BTW, dragging Dostoyevsky and Tolstoy into the mix just shows that Jack Chick, Dave Hunt, et al. are not alone in their delusions.