Pope Again Reaches Out to Orthodox Church

Herald Tribune ^ | June 30, 2003

[NYer]

VATICAN CITY Pope John Paul II again reached out to the Orthodox Church on Sunday, saying his efforts at reconciliation weren't just "ecclesiastic courtesy" but a sign of his profound desire to unite the Orthodox and Roman Catholic churches.

John Paul made the comments during his regular appearance to pilgrims and tourists in St. Peter's Square. Later Sunday, he welcomed a delegation from the Ecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople at a traditional Mass marking the feast day of St. Peter and St. Paul.

"The exchange of delegations between Rome and Constantinople, for the respective patron feasts, goes beyond just an act of ecclesiastic courtesy," the pontiff said. "It reflects the profound and rooted intention to re-establish the full communion between East and West."

John Paul has made improving relations with the Orthodox Church a hallmark of his nearly 25-year papacy, visiting several mostly Orthodox countries and expressing regret for the wrongs committed by the Catholic Church against Orthodox Christians.

Despite his efforts at healing the 1,000-year-old schism, he hasn't yet visited Russia because of objections from the Russian Orthodox Church.

During the Mass on Sunday, 42 new archbishops received the pallium, a band of white wool decorated with black crosses that symbolizes their bond with the Vatican. Two of the archbishops received the pallium in their home parishes; the rest took part in the Mass in St. Peter's Basilica.

[MarMema]

That's from 1964. Remember 1964? I was a child. It was, um, about 50 years ago. It is about the plurality of jurisdictions in America.

What is your point? Stay Catholic. By all means. We are not chasing you, your pope is chasing us. If you find things written about us that give you pause, then go ahead and stay where you are. It is a problem we are working on, the numerous jurisdictions here in America from all over the world. Your church has no problems today? Super! I'll take some plurality and ethnicity over pedophiles, but everyone can make a choice, here in America. It's a grand thing, isn't it?

[FormerLib]

Three Russian jurisdictions, two Serbian, two Romanian, two Albanian, two Bulgarian. A split among the Syrians . . . The animosity between the Russians and the Carpatho-Russians... The Ukrainian problem!

Ah yes, the aftermath of Communism!.

Did you not know that the Serbs, who split over the question of Communist influence on the Patriarch, have rejoined under the guidance of Patriarch Pavle?

The existing split in the Russian Church is set to pass at any moment.

Perhaps you should focus on the divisions in your own church. Roman Catholic writers tell of homosexuals virtually controlling certain seminaries. That some Cardinals concealed the crimes of priests has been in the headlines for some time and will continue for some time to come.

Better to deal with the beam in your own eye, perhaps, than to trumpet the mote in ours.

[FormerLib]

Are the Jihadist Jesuits forcing people to convert with the sword?

See post 218. It was within my father's lifetime that his entire family was murdered for refusing conversion to Roman Catholicism. Burned alive in their church, they said 'No' to the Pope and 'Yes' to Jesus Christ.

Serbs who visit the desecrated graveyard next to the burned wreckage of the church at Primislje take care not to venerate themselves openly lest they be attacked by the Croats, "the children of the Catholic Church" I believe John Paul II called them, murder them for it.

[FormerLib]

Who the hell would want to reunite with you people!

Apparently, the Pope!

Perhaps you agree that he is in error, yes?

[FormerLib]

Oops, sloppy editing there!

Should read, "...who will murder them for it."

[katnip]

Complete the quote: "and embrace Islam." That's what so many Orthodox did. That's why there are so many "Turks" who look like Greeks.

The Turks didn't wipe out all those Greeks to your satisfaction, eh?

Your Christian charity is overwhelming.

[Conservative til I die]

You mean the ones given to all of the Apostles equally? What was your point again?

What Bible are *you* reading?

[MarMema]

But since you like Fr. Schmemann so much, here are some of my favorite quotes from him, in about 1983 when he was still alive.

"...the chief and most frightening danger poisoning contemporary church consciousness is the substitution of unity from below for unity from above."

"The substitution, the victory of the prince of this world, however, lies in that fact that he has torn this unity away from God, its source, content, and goal, and thus has made unity an end-in-itself or, in the language of faith, an idol. Unity, which is from God, has ceased to be unity with God and in God, who alone fulfils it as genuine unity and genuine life. Unity becomes its own content, its own "god"."

[TexConfederate1861]

no...I will remain Orthodox.....
I have no desire to convert to a pagan religon.

[TexConfederate1861]

It wouldn't be the first time the Jesuits murdered and pliiaged in the name of God.

And the reason Bartholomew looks so happy, is he thinks he will be the first Eastern Pope, after he shoves reunion with Rome on the poor Greeks!

Not the first apostate to attempt that in our History!

[newberger]

I've been reading this "garbage" all day.

Some witness to God's love you all are.

This discussion makes me sick.

"Behold, how they love one another." NOT!

Paul (aka Newberger)

[MarMema]

I think he knows better than to try. There is not a hint of any of this on his website. These kinds of posts show up fairly often here on the religion forum, always written by the vatican and often faithfully quoted by the press.

[MarMema]

Don't hold back. Tell us how you really feel.

[TexConfederate1861]

Note: Not ONE Word mentioned concerning the Pope's approval at this council....




The Letter of the Synod in Nicaea to the Egyptians

The bishops assembled at Nicaea, who constitute the great and holy synod, greet the church of the Alexandrians, by the grace of God holy and great, and the beloved brethren in Egypt, Libya and Pentapolis.

Since the grace of God and the most pious emperor Constantine have called us together from different provinces and cities to constitute the great and holy synod in Nicaea, it seemed absolutely necessary that the holy synod should send you a letter so that you may know what was proposed and discussed, and what was decided and enacted.

First of all the affair of the impiety and lawlessness of Arius and his followers was discussed in the presence of the most pious emperor Constantine. It was unanimously agreed that anathemas should be pronounced against his impious opinion and his blasphemous terms and expressions which he has blasphemously applied to the Son of God, saying "he is from things that are not," and "before he was begotten he was not," and "there once was when he was not," saying too that by his own power the Son of God is capable of evil and goodness, and calling him a creature and a work. Against all this the Holy Synod pronounced anathemas, and did not allow this impious and abandoned opinion and these blasphemous words even to be heard.

Of that man and the fate which befell him, you have doubtless heard or will hear, lest we should seem to trample upon one who has already received a fitting reward because of his own sin. Such indeed was the power of his impiety that Theonas of Marmarica and Secundus of Ptolemais shared in the consequences, for they too suffered the same fate. But since, when the grace of God had freed Egypt from this evil and blasphemous opinion, and from the persons who had dared to create a schism and a separation in a people which up to now had lived in peace, there remained the question of the presumption of Meletius and the men whom he had ordained, we shall explain to you, beloved brethren, the synod's decisions on this subject too. The synod was moved to incline towards mildness in its treatment of Meletius for strictly speaking he deserved no mercy. It decreed that that he might remain in his own city without any authority to nominate or ordain, and that he was not to show himself for this purpose in the country or in another city, and that he was to retain the bare name of his office.

It was further decreed that those whom he had ordained, when they had been validated by a more spiritual ordination, were to be admitted to communion on condition that they would retain their rank and exercise their ministry, but in every respect were to be second to all the clergy in each diocese and church who had been nominated under our most honored brother and fellow minister Alexander; they were to have no authority to appoint candidates of their choice or to put forward names or to do anything at all without the consent of the bishop of the catholic church, namely the bishop of those who are under Alexander. But those who by the grace of God and by our prayers have not been detected in any schism, and are spotless in the catholic and apostolic church, are to have authority to appoint and to put forward the names of men of the clergy who are worthy, and in general to do everything according to the law and rule of the church.

In the event of the death of any in the church, those who have recently been accepted are thereupon to succeed to the office of the deceased, provided that they appear worthy and are chosen by the people; the bishop of Alexandria is to take part in the vote and confirm the election. This privilege, which has been granted to all others, does not apply to the person of Meletius because of his inveterate seditiousness and his mercurial and rash disposition, lest any authority or responsibility should be given to one who is capable of returning to his seditious practices.

These are the chief and most important decrees as far as concerns Egypt and the most holy church of the Alexandrians. Whatever other canons and decrees were enacted in the presence of our lord and most honored fellow minister and brother Alexander, he will himself report them to you in greater detail when he comes, for he was himself a leader as well as a participant in the events.

We also send you the good news of the settlement concerning the holy Pascha, namely that in answer to your prayers this question also has been resolved. All the brethren in the East who have hitherto followed the Jewish practice will henceforth observe the custom of the Romans and of yourselves and of all of us who from ancient times have kept Easter together with you. Rejoicing then in these successes and in the common peace and harmony and in the cutting off of all heresy, welcome our fellow minister, your bishop Alexander, with all the greater honor and love. He has made us happy by his presence, and despite his advanced age has undertaken such great labor in order that you too may enjoy peace.

Pray for us all that OUR DECISIONS may remain secure through almighty God and our lord Jesus Christ in the Holy Spirit, to whom is the glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Translation taken from Decrees of the Ecumenical Councils, ed. Norman P. Tanner

[katnip]

Show me a Father of the Church who denied the Primacy. I doubt you can find one who was not also a heretic, and thus not really a Father of the Church.

The greatest saints of the east, men like St. John Chrysostom, St. Peter Chrysologus, and St. Maximus the Confessor all explicitly recognized the Primacy.

According to this Catholic site, St. John Chrysostom, one of the first Doctors of the Church never did that:

Strangely enough, in the Latin Church, Chrysostom was still earlier invoked as an authority on matters of faith. The first writer who quoted him was Pelagius, when he wrote his lost book "De Naturæ" against St. Augustine (c. 415). The Bishop of Hippo himself very soon afterwards (421) claimed Chrysostom for the Catholic teaching in his controversy with Julian of Eclanum, who had opposed to him a passage of Chrysostom (from the "Hom. ad Neophytos", preserved only in Latin) as being against original sin (see Chrys. Baur, "L'entrée littéraire de St. Jean Chrys. dans le monde latin" in the "Revue d'histoire ecclés.", VIII, 1907, 249-65). Again, at the time of the Reformation there arose long and acrid discussions as to whether Chrysostom was a Protestant or a Catholic, and these polemics have never wholly ceased. It is true that Chrysostom has some strange passages on our Blessed Lady (see Newman, "Certain difficulties felt by Anglicans in Catholic Teachings", London, 1876, pp. 130 sqq.), that he seems to ignore private confession to a priest, that there is no clear and any direct passage in favour of the primacy of the pope. But it must be remembered that all the respective passages contain nothing positive against the actual Catholic doctrine.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08452b.htm

[TexConfederate1861]

Ok...here is your Church Father...one of YOUR POPES:

No Pope before Gregory the Great (590-604) claimed "Universality".

For, as your venerable Holiness knows, this name of Universality was offered by the holy synod of Chalcedon to the pontiff of the Apostolic See which by the providence of God I serve(2). But no one of my predecessors has ever consented to use this so profane a title; since, forsooth, if one Patriarch is called Universal, the name of Patriarch in the case of the rest is derogated. But far be this, far be it from the mind of a Christian, that any one should wish to seize for himself that whereby he might seem in the least degree to lessen the honour of his brethren. While, then, we are unwilling to receive this honour when offered to us, think how disgraceful it is for any one to have wished to usurp it to himself perforce.

Wherefore let not your Holiness in your epistles ever call any one Universal, lest you detract from the honour due to yourself in offering to another what is not due.

Source: BOOK V, EPISTLE XLIII: TO EULOGIUS AND ANASTASIUS, BISHOPS from Pope Gregory the Great (590-604),

[TexConfederate1861]

Ok...here is your Church Father...one of YOUR POPES:

No Pope before Gregory the Great (590-604) claimed "Universality".

For, as your venerable Holiness knows, this name of Universality was offered by the holy synod of Chalcedon to the pontiff of the Apostolic See which by the providence of God I serve(2). But no one of my predecessors has ever consented to use this so profane a title; since, forsooth, if one Patriarch is called Universal, the name of Patriarch in the case of the rest is derogated. But far be this, far be it from the mind of a Christian, that any one should wish to seize for himself that whereby he might seem in the least degree to lessen the honour of his brethren. While, then, we are unwilling to receive this honour when offered to us, think how disgraceful it is for any one to have wished to usurp it to himself perforce.

Wherefore let not your Holiness in your epistles ever call any one Universal, lest you detract from the honour due to yourself in offering to another what is not due.

Source: BOOK V, EPISTLE XLIII: TO EULOGIUS AND ANASTASIUS, BISHOPS from Pope Gregory the Great (590-604),

[MarMema]

Are you saying I've made up the history of the Orthodox Church myself?

You can not even begin to understand our church from the outside, and most newcomers require at least several years before they begin to slowly change toward the eastern mindset.

"Doctrine is not grasped by the mind alone, but a mind and a heart in communion with God. In this union, one is changed not primarily by what one knows, but by Who one knows. Theology was never intended to answer the unbeliever's questions. It was meant to lead the one with an open spirit into a meeting with God."

[TexConfederate1861]

If you are not Orthodox, you wouldn't even BEGIN to understand why we defend our Faith.....

If you don't like it, you have the freedom to go to another thread!

[RussianConservative]

If you want truth of Orthodox sacrements, then in Orthodoxy all things of God, including prayer, sacremental.