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Pope Again Reaches Out to Orthodox Church
Herald Tribune ^ | June 30, 2003

Posted on 06/30/2003 2:53:51 PM PDT by NYer

VATICAN CITY Pope John Paul II again reached out to the Orthodox Church on Sunday, saying his efforts at reconciliation weren't just "ecclesiastic courtesy" but a sign of his profound desire to unite the Orthodox and Roman Catholic churches.

John Paul made the comments during his regular appearance to pilgrims and tourists in St. Peter's Square. Later Sunday, he welcomed a delegation from the Ecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople at a traditional Mass marking the feast day of St. Peter and St. Paul.

"The exchange of delegations between Rome and Constantinople, for the respective patron feasts, goes beyond just an act of ecclesiastic courtesy," the pontiff said. "It reflects the profound and rooted intention to re-establish the full communion between East and West."

John Paul has made improving relations with the Orthodox Church a hallmark of his nearly 25-year papacy, visiting several mostly Orthodox countries and expressing regret for the wrongs committed by the Catholic Church against Orthodox Christians.

Despite his efforts at healing the 1,000-year-old schism, he hasn't yet visited Russia because of objections from the Russian Orthodox Church.

During the Mass on Sunday, 42 new archbishops received the pallium, a band of white wool decorated with black crosses that symbolizes their bond with the Vatican. Two of the archbishops received the pallium in their home parishes; the rest took part in the Mass in St. Peter's Basilica.


TOPICS: Activism; Apologetics; Catholic; Current Events; Ecumenism; General Discusssion; History; Ministry/Outreach; Orthodox Christian; Religion & Culture; Theology; Worship
KEYWORDS: catholic; ecumenism; orthodox; pope; vatican
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To: Hermann the Cherusker; crazykatz; wildandcrazyrussian
Show me Bull where popes tried to ban sales? As for praying for dead, yes we pray, but no Pergatory in Bible and we don't ask monies to pray, which was common practice. You defend indefensable. Just like you defend Nazies.
181 posted on 07/01/2003 1:08:48 PM PDT by RussianConservative (Hristos: the Light of the World)
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To: RussianConservative; MarMema
Dropping 3 books from old Testiment for five.

Show me a doctrinal pronouncement from the Church that ever included these three books (3 and 4 Maccabees and 1 Esdras, I assume, which are in the appendix of the Vulgate). The Canonical lists were drawn up starting in AD 382 by Pope St. Damasus. They were repeated by Councils of Carthage in 397 and 419, which were accepted in total, including the Canons laying out the Catholic canon of scripture by the Council in Trullo (Quinisext) in 692. The website for Orthodox Church Canon Law is the source. Canon 2 from Quinisext reads in part:

But we set our seal likewise upon all the other holy canons set forth by our holy and blessed Fathers, that is, by the 318 holy God-bearing Fathers assembled at Nice, and those at Ancyra, further those at NeoCaesarea and likewise those at Gangra, and besides, those at Antioch in Syria: those too at Laodicea in Phrygia: and likewise the 150 who assembled in this heaven-protected royal city: and the 200 who assembled the first time in the metropolis of the Ephesians, and the 630 holy and blessed Fathers at Chalcedon. In like manner those of Sardica, and those of Carthage: those also who again assembled in this heaven-protected royal city under its bishop Nectarins and Theophilus Archbishop of Alexandria.

What does the Council of Carthage say?

Canon 24. Besides the canonical Scriptures, nothing shall be read in church under the name of divine Scriptures. Moreover, the canonical Scriptures are these: Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy, Joshua the son of Nun, Judges, Ruth, the four books of the Kings,the two books of Chronicles, Job, the Psalms of David, five books of Solomon, the book of the Twelve [minor] Prophets, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Daniel, Tobias, Judith, Esther, the two books of Ezra, and the two books of the Maccabees. The books of the New Testament: the Gospels, four books; the Acts of the Apostles, one book; the epistles of the apostle Paul, thirteen; of the same to the Hebrews, one epistle; of Peter, two; of John the apostle, three; of James, one; of Jude, one; the Revelation of John. Concerning the confirmation of this canon, the Church across the sea shall be consulted. On the anniversaries of martyrs, their acts shall also be read.

Do the Orthodox now reject the Council in Trullo's Canons too?

182 posted on 07/01/2003 1:13:15 PM PDT by Hermann the Cherusker
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To: RussianConservative
Indeed, this doctrine was rejected also by some traditional circles within the Western Church: hence the appearance of the Old Catholic Movement, which for many decades conducted a dialogue with the Orthodox

The Old Catholics are hardly "Traditional" unless your tradition includes loose morality. Watch out who you make your bedfellows.

183 posted on 07/01/2003 1:14:28 PM PDT by Hermann the Cherusker
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To: Conservative til I die
Our Archbishop is a kind and wonderful man. I am sure he is JUST being nice.... he is like that to ALL sick folks.
184 posted on 07/01/2003 1:16:59 PM PDT by crazykatz
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To: RussianConservative
As I state in Doctirnal matters all Orthodox united

Are you sure? Why then do Russian Orthodox not rebaptize converts from Catholicism or Protestant sects, while Greek Orthodox do?

Do all Orthodox accept divorce and remarriage, despite condemnation of it by Jesus as adultery?

185 posted on 07/01/2003 1:17:59 PM PDT by Hermann the Cherusker
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To: ArrogantBustard
No, you did not say your friend is Roman Catholic. I am very well aware that Catholic and Roman Catholic are not synonymous. I made my initial comment because of the recent statemet by the Vatican that the future of a celibate priesthood was not open for debate, and if that is the case, a huge issue of practicality would likely prevent a future unification of the two churches. If each part of a future Catholic church were able to determine if a married priesthood was acceptable, it is my guess that the Roman Catholic variety would see a huge decline in its priesthood and membership.
186 posted on 07/01/2003 1:19:23 PM PDT by connectthedots
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To: connectthedots
This being the case, it appears that the solution for someone who wants to be both an RC priest and married is to get married first.
If you want to be an RC permanent deacon and married, you have to be married at the time of ordination.
187 posted on 07/01/2003 1:19:54 PM PDT by eastsider
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To: connectthedots
This being the case, it appears that the solution for someone who wants to be both an RC priest and married is to get married first.
If you want to be an RC permanent deacon and married, you have to be married at the time of ordination.
188 posted on 07/01/2003 1:21:36 PM PDT by eastsider
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To: ArrogantBustard
Are you implying that your friend was Roman Catholic, but changed to Orthodox Catholicism in order that he could become a priest?
189 posted on 07/01/2003 1:23:10 PM PDT by connectthedots
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To: TexConfederate1861
that doesn't give him authority over their patriarchates....and that is the honor that St. John and the others speak of

St. John speaks of "authority" and "presiding", not "chairman" or "honor".

190 posted on 07/01/2003 1:23:16 PM PDT by Hermann the Cherusker
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To: connectthedots
You're on the right track, now. HtC guessed right, that he's Eastern Catholic of some sort. The future of celibate priesthood is not open for debate in the Latin Rite ... but has never been required in any of the Byzantine or other Eastern Rites. This has never (in two thousand years) caused "the Roman Catholic variety [to] see a huge decline in its priesthood and membership." So I don't see it as a problem at all. It's very different from the current practice in the Episcopal Church of ordaining priestesses.
191 posted on 07/01/2003 1:26:58 PM PDT by ArrogantBustard
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To: MarMema
We know what he is saying that Orthodox are Conciliar. But how do you protect against Robber Councils, like Ephesus II in AD 449? You have no final authority against robber councils. And who calls them and upon what authority? We have the Papacy, who put the kibosh on the original Robber Council, in the person of Pope St. Leo the Great.
192 posted on 07/01/2003 1:30:40 PM PDT by Hermann the Cherusker
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To: RussianConservative
Hmmm, you miss part of Papal States...oh but they only around for 1000 years and Vatican City is still independent Kingdom with Pope as King.

The Papal States - Peter's Patrimony - was given to the Pope by the Byzantine Emperor. The Pope did not rule as "Caesar" though. That title was held by the Byzantine Emperor as Caesar of the East, and Charlemagne and Descendants down through the Hapsburgs as Caesar of the West. This is very clear in our old Good Friday Liturgy, which has a prayer for the Holy Roman Emperor of the West - the Emperor of Austria-Hungary in the last instance.

The Pope is not "King Pope" in the Vatican.

193 posted on 07/01/2003 1:35:26 PM PDT by Hermann the Cherusker
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To: Hermann the Cherusker
Why then do Russian Orthodox not rebaptize converts from Catholicism or Protestant sects, while Greek Orthodox do?That is lie. Friend of mine left Lutherin and became Greek Orthodox in Greek Church, there is only one Baptism so he was Christmated into Church not Baptised...where you get your facts?

Oh and warning on bedfellows? You should do the watching since you have on several instances defended Nazies.

194 posted on 07/01/2003 1:43:15 PM PDT by RussianConservative (Hristos: the Light of the World)
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To: Hermann the Cherusker
You know very well, Ceasar is loose for ruler, you splice hairs and avoid topic...Popes were KINGS of Papal States, still kings of Vatican City. YOu know this but can not admit.
195 posted on 07/01/2003 1:45:35 PM PDT by RussianConservative (Hristos: the Light of the World)
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To: RussianConservative
Please try to understand history for a few minutes. The "Celtic Christians" were fully under Rome. Read the site you yourself reference. Britain and Ireland were under the Roman Patriarchate.

Also, you need to understand that "Danes" and "Normans" raiding and settling in "Anglo-Saxon England" is a matter of a fraternal quarrel. The Angles (and Jutes) were from the same land as the Danes and Normans, and were in fact blood relations. The Saxons and Frisians were from right around the bend of the land along the North Sea coast and so were close cousins. They were all Germans, and they all spoke the same language. Try reading Beowulf and Hamlet in this regard.

196 posted on 07/01/2003 1:45:42 PM PDT by Hermann the Cherusker
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To: RussianConservative
Not excuse, but USE.
197 posted on 07/01/2003 1:46:26 PM PDT by Hermann the Cherusker
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To: Hermann the Cherusker
National name: Stato della Città del Vaticano

Ruler: Pope John Paul II (1978)

Area: 0.17 sq mi (0.44 sq km)

Population (July 2002 est.): 900; population growth rate: 1.2%; density per sq mi: 5,298

Monetary unit: Euro

Languages: Latin, Italian, and various other languages

Ethnicity/race: Italians, Swiss

Pope is still earthly ruler, much reduced from earlier but RULER aka CEASAR aka KING aka AUTOCRAT.

754 Donation of Pepin creates a temporal Papal State for the Popes of the Roman Catholic Church (also called the Papal States or the States of the Church).

198 posted on 07/01/2003 1:50:26 PM PDT by RussianConservative (Hristos: the Light of the World)
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To: RussianConservative
next you deny ... that Nazi with Pope backing kill 20 million in Russia and 1 million in Yugoslavia and 1 million in Greece

Yes, I'll deny that the Pope backed it. I am curious about Pope and Hitler in photo, seeing as Pius XI refused to meet with Hitler when he came to town.

Many of those 20 million Russians were murdered by Stalin because of his penchant for shooting those who surrendered when they returned. See: Operation Keelhaul. There are no 1 million dead Greeks or Yugoslavs I've ever heard of. Show me a source for these wild claims.

199 posted on 07/01/2003 1:50:34 PM PDT by Hermann the Cherusker
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To: RussianConservative
several instances defended Nazies

Where? Because I deny the Pope blessed Hitler and his endeavours like you claim?

200 posted on 07/01/2003 1:53:06 PM PDT by Hermann the Cherusker
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