we all die alone!
When that day comes
each will have to answer!
Posted on 06/27/2003 11:31:19 AM PDT by Antoninus
Friends,
In light of recent national and international events, it should be clear to most of you that the Christian underpinnings of western civilization are being knocked out from under our feet. Recent acts of judicial fiat in both Canada and in our own country have made it abundantly clear that the "post-Christian" world envisioned by anti-Christian radicals for centuries now may be close at hand.
Rather than continuing to scratch and claw our own eyes out over our differences (which will not, by the way, be resolved on this forum) I suggest that we call a temporary truce. Nearly all of us have the same cultural values including an abhorrence for abortion, a desire to raise our children free from intrusive and pervasive immorality, a revulsion at the "gay" deathstyle, and a desire to express our religious convictions publicly without threat of punishment.
If we continue on our current trajectory, is there any doubt that Christians will be reduced to the status of second class citizens? There are already whiffs of persecution emanating from Canada and some European countries. Are you truly prepared to face this threat if it arrives here? Of course, there is something to be said for being imprisoned and stripped of your family and possessions for expressing your Christian beliefs. But how many of us in our soft communities are ready to face the same trials that routinely confronted our early saints?
I maintain that there is much we can do to turn the tide. First and foremost, taking a cue from the citizens of Nineveh, we should put on sack-cloth and ashes (at least figuratively, if not literally) and seek personal repentence. Second, we must get active. If you're already active, prepare to become moreso.
The activity I'm proposing is not simply political, though that is a part of it. It needs to be evangelical--I accuse myself and my Church in general of going mainly soft on this issue. Indeed, many of the most celebrated evangelical Catholics are converts (!) And for you Evangelical Protestants, I challenge you to turn your fervor away from trying to convert pious and believing Catholics and train your theological cannons on the great and growing mass of secularized, sexualized youth. In short, I believe that a new, powerful burst of evangelization is the only thing that can save Western civilization from the otherwise unavoidable implosion of anarchy.
At any rate, if you think I'm being ridiculous or overstating the problem, just imagine we were back in 1990 and I told you that within 15 years, the Supreme Court would declare sodomy to be a constitutional right and that Canada would consider two homosexual men the moral equivalent of marriage.
If we unite, we can win. If we stay divided, we cede the victory to the forces of darkness. Your choice.
John answered him, saying: Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, who followeth not us: and we forbade him. But Jesus said: Do not forbid him. For there is no man that doth a miracle in my name and can soon speak ill of me. For he that is not against you is for you. (Mark 9:38)
Thanks for the link to the Angel Hierarchy page. It lets us know where the non-scriptural "order or rank" stuff comes from, but I don't see how you think Satan has "obtained" one of those, or how you think Satan has power with God.
But Ephesians 6:12 is right on topic.
The adversary is doing his very best to cause as much trouble as he can. Our job is to live according to the very best light we have, to cleave unto God with all our heart, mind, might, and strength, to love our neighbor as ourselves, to stand for goodness and virtue at all times and in all places, so the Lord can use us in His service to bless others and advance the cause of Christ. The victory will be His.
What scriptures ..The Book of Mormon (the most correct book) or the Bible or the Pearl of great price? She is typical of observant Mormons,speculation is a way of life for the LDS ..sorry if her truthfulness is an embarrassment to you
IMHO am I not allow to share my obsevarions?
Several times I have invited other to search the scriptures and to continue to ponder.
I posted things that can be observed in the BIBLE just because you don't acknowledge it or want to seach more when there are things that are clear. I also did make that clear to the best of my abilities!
My discussion on this will be using the Bible only! So keep the focus of the discussion within Biblical debate
To: Dr. Eckleburg
I would add the Father knows everything because He is the author of everything.
742 posted on 06/28/2003 6:50 PM MDT by RnMomof7 (Salvation is of God)
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MY REPLY TO RnMomof7
To: RnMomof7
I would add the Father knows everything because He is the author of everything.
1 Cor. 14:
33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
747 posted on 06/28/2003 7:35 PM MDT by restornu (When ye are in the service of your fellow beings ye are only in the service of your God.)
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To: God is good
"If it was then God is the creator of something he has called evil, so God is the creator of evil, which makes him evil."
If God didn't create evil, then who did? Or does it co-exist along side of him in eternity? That he created the concept of evil is not the same thing as being the author of our sin.
If God didn't create 'evil', then there would be no evil. 'Evil', then, must also serve his purpose.
We see this very thing when we see the Scriptures telling us that while God ordained all the events of the cross, those who actually carried out the crucfixion were considered evil for doing so. (Luke 22:22, Acts 2, Acts 4)
Jean
739 posted on 06/28/2003 5:40 PM MDT by Jean Chauvin
To: Jean Chauvin; God is good; fortheDeclaration; P-Marlowe; RnMomof7; drstevej; CCWoody; ...
If God didn't create evil, then who did?
Exactly. Four days ago I asked Marlowe "who created Satan?"
I'm still waiting for a response.
The debate gets lost in the details when the basic questions are unresolved and men feel free to concoct all sorts of man-centered rationalizations for life and God and salvation.
But if we agree on the basics: that God is the creator of all things on earth and in heaven; God is sovereign; God knows the future because God knows everything; all men are not saved; Lazarus was dead as a squished snail when he was given life again by Christ; and finally, the most important point, that God created man so that one day, through the sacrifice of His only son, we might share heaven with Him; if we can agree on all these points, then the answers to questions like "who created evil?" and "who created Satan?" will become obvious.
And the details follow from there.
740 posted on 06/28/2003 6:37 PM MDT by Dr. Eckleburg (There are very few shades of gray.)
Now my reply to Dr. Eckleburg is to search the scriptures for there are glimpses to enable understanding.
***** **** **** **** **** **** *****
To: Dr. Eckleburg who created Satan?"
When you read this you will see Lucifer/Satan was created perfect until iniquity was found in him!
I think some answer can be found in Ex.28
15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
EZEKIEL 28
11 Moreover the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
12 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.
13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.
18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.
19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.
ISAIAH 14
Lucifer cast out of heaven for rebellion—
12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;
17 That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?
18 All the kings of the nations, even all of them, lie in glory, every one in his own house.
19 But thou art cast out of thy grave like an abominable branch, and as the raiment of those that are slain, thrust through with a sword, that go down to the stones of the pit; as a carcase trodden under feet.
20 Thou shalt not be joined with them in burial, because thou hast destroyed thy land, and slain thy people: the seed of evildoers shall never be renowned.
Rev. 12
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
750 posted on 06/28/2003 8:17 PM MDT by restornu (When ye are in the service of your fellow beings ye are only in the service of your God.)
***** *****
ISAIAH 14
Lucifer cast out of heaven for rebellion—
Lucifer could have remain a part of God creation had he not been found with iniquity and choosen to rebel and covet the throne of Heavenly Father.
So even Satan did have a choice but refused to repend and declared war on God!
Now when and Eve losted their innocents it was not because of rebellion. It was because they did not know what was wrong compared to what if they never did wrong!
They no longer could remain in the garden, but Heavenly Father continued to instruct and nuture them.
Lucifer knew knwe right from wrong he was a dignitary. When one studies and ponder these things (scriptures) one can observed the degree between Lucifer attitude and that of Adam and Eve.
We can witness this same behavior of Cane to some degree for Heavenly Father did not take his life, but exile him to the land of Nod! PS I really would have like to know where that conversation on Lazars was going!
I hate to break it to you, but drsteve married you to me last week when you were in absentia, so we are now cozied upYou can have the upper bunk or the lower in the tack room, but no loud music after 2 am. JesseDuke needs his shuteye
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