7 Step Reason to be Catholic II; Revitalizing Faith in the Wake of Scandal and Dissent

Coming Home Network ^ | Jerome D. Gilmartin

[NYer]

7 Step Reason to be Catholic II; Revitalizing Faith in the Wake of Scandal and Dissent

A Summary and Study Guide for Part I of this
3-part book: The 7-Step Reason to be Catholic

Part II of the book addresses scandal and dissent within Catholicism today.
Part III of the book addresses key points of doctrinal incompatibility with other faiths.

© 2001, 2003; Jerome D. Gilmartin - gilmartn@nep.net

Offered in the belief that the truly ecumenical Catholic is one who can
graciously and concisely explain the importance of being Catholic.

An important supplement to Catholic university, college and high school education, as well as diocesan and parish programs in Catechesis, RCIA, RENEW Campus Ministry, Prison Ministry, Bible Study and other
programs for Catholic youth and adults.

An introduction to Catholic Apologetics

Imprimatur: Granted 1/16/01 for the book, (1st ed.), by
Most Rev. James C. Timlin, D.D. Bishop of Scranton

Nihil Obstat: Granted 1/16/01 for the book, (1st ed.), by
Rev. Msgr. David Bohr, S.T.D., Censor Librorum

[NYer]

This may well be an excellent gift to your pastor for his DRE. They are always looking for inspirational materials to use in catechisis. Several times this past year, certain students told me they had been invited by their protestant friends to attend a Sunday service at the new evangelical church. They had many questions. Since I will not be teaching this year, I plan on giving this book to the DRE to share with the other teachers.

[LiteKeeper]

I was fine until #4...then you lost me. Way too many assumptions in the interpretation...and for me, it goes down hill from there, despite what Martin Grodi says. As a Protestant, he was obviously poorly taught.

[NYer]

I was fine until #4...then you lost me.

Was it the CCC that caused confusion? CCC refers to the Catechism of the Catholic Churdh. This is currently being posted to the forum, twice a week. It is a lengthy book and we are only 11 weeks into its posting. You can follow it here (at least what has been posted so far.)

Past CATECHISM CC Series threads

[ACAC]

When the article says the pastor thought about all of the churches teaching something differnt than he was teaching, a Catholic church was one of those churches. He does not explain why the Catholic church is the one that is correct. I could sit in a Catholic church, as I have on many occasions, and think the same thing. Other churches are teaching something differnt. The trick is to find the one you think is correct.

[ACAC]

One problem you may have is that non-Catholics don't believe in the CCC. Therefore, when you try to prove a point by quoting it, others will say that is not the Bible, it is just the Vatican's opinion.

[LiteKeeper]

Was it the CCC that caused confusion?

No...it was the interpretation of the verses mentioned in this point. There is a mighty leap of assumption to #3 to the claims of #4. Although the interpretations of the verses in #4 are one possible view, they are not universally accepted. To assume the Roman Catholic Church is THE fulfillment of these verses is rejected by many in the Body of Christ. And of course, since that assumption leads to the other conclusions, the rest of the points must follow this line of thinking...sorry, I cannot accept the resulting contention that the Roman Catholic Church is the only church.

[LiteKeeper]

One problem you may have is that non-Catholics don't believe in the CCC. Therefore, when you try to prove a point by quoting it, others will say that is not the Bible, it is just the Vatican's opinion

Exactly...much of the world, and me included, do not accept the authority of the CCC. Basically, we reject non-Biblical citations.

[ACAC]

That is why, as a protestant, I do not place much stock in what the early church fathers wrote. It is not inspired and it is not in the Bible. Jesus had to correct his followers many times while he was on earth. Therefore, why should I believe someone who wrote something 100 years after he died?

[NYer]

That is why, as a protestant, I do not place much stock in what the early church fathers wrote.

Many of these men walked with the Apostles and were taught directly by them. Polycarp and Papias, for instance, are considered to have been disciples of the Apostle John. Doctrinal authority during this period rested on two sources, the Old Testament (O.T.) and the notion of Apostolic succession, being able to trace a direct association to one of the Apostles and thus to Christ. Although the New Testament (N.T.) Canon was written, it was not yet seen as a separate body of books equivalent to the O.T. Six church leaders are commonly referred to: Barnabas, Hermas, Clement of Rome, Polycarp, Papias, and Ignatius (Berkhof, The History of Christian Doctrines, 37). Although these men lacked the technical sophistication of today's theologians, their correspondence confirmed the teachings of the Apostles and provides a doctrinal link to the N.T. Canon itself. Christianity was as yet a fairly small movement. These Church Fathers, often elders and bishops in the early Church, were consumed by the practical aspects of Christian life among the new converts. These men clearly believed that Jesus was God as was the Holy Spirit, but they had yet to clarify in writing the problems that might occur when attempting to explain this truth.

The early Church Fathers had no doubt about the authority of the O.T., often prefacing their quotes with "For thus saith God" and other notations. As a result they tended to be rather moralistic and even legalistic on some issues. Because the N.T. Canon was not yet settled, they respected and quoted from works that have generally passed out of the Christian tradition. The books of Hermas, Barnabas, Didache, and 1 and 2 Clement were all regarded highly (Hannah, Lecture Notes for the History of Doctrine, 2.2). As Berkhof writes concerning these early Church leaders, "For them Christianity was not in the first place a knowledge to be acquired, but the principle of a new obedience to God" (Berkhof, History of the Christian Church, 39).

Although these early Church Fathers may seem rather ill-prepared to hand down all the subtle implications of the Christian faith to the coming generations, they form a doctrinal link to the Apostles (and thus to our Lord Jesus Christ), as well as a witness to the growing commitment to the Canon of Scripture that would become the N.T. As Clement of Rome said in first century, "Look carefully into the Scriptures, which are the true utterances of the Holy Spirit" (Geisler, Decide For Yourself, 11).

[ACAC]

Thank you for that. I just know that Jesus even had to correct his own disciples many times regarding the faith. If that is true, then the people who came along in the next generation were even more apt to be wrong. I am just too conservative to use anything except the Bible.

[Salvation]

Sounds like excellent apologetics to me.

[Salvation]

**Certainly, through the Bible, Jesus would have let us know if he intended the divided Christianity of today, with its more than 33,000 denominations and its many contradictory teachings on matters on which one's very salvation may well depend.**

Very important statement here. Jesus said, "I am the Way." What He founded was the Catholic Church.

Not 30+ thousand churches!!!!!

[Salvation]

**One problem you may have is that non-Catholics don't believe in the CCC. Therefore, when you try to prove a point by quoting it, others will say that is not the Bible, it is just the Vatican's opinion.**

Have you every looked at the Catechism of the Catholic Church to see all the references to Scripture? You excuses don't even hold water. Educate yourself, please.

[Salvation]

**Exactly...much of the world, and me included, do not accept the authority of the CCC. Basically, we reject non-Biblical citations.**

See my post to ACAC above. Educate yourself, please.

[Salvation]

Do you say a Profession of Faith in your churches?

[LiteKeeper]

No

[LiteKeeper]

Amen. But, the indoctrination of the Roman Church for so many years has blinded too many for too long

sola scriptura

[Aquinasfan]

Bookmarking. Great resource.

[Aquinasfan]

sola scriptura

Where's that in the Bible?