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To: Ippolita
Official Vatican translation into English:
"The images of hell that Sacred Scripture presents to us must be correctly interpreted. They show the complete frustration and emptiness of life without God. Rather than a place, hell indicates the state of those who freely and definitively separate themselves from God, the source of all life and joy."

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In this passage, John Paul is saying two things that seem to go against my understanding of Church doctrine.

1)
John Paul said that Hell is not a physical place, but just a spiritual separation from God. If that were the case, one who denied God in this life wouldn't have to wait to die, he would be in Hell right now, on Earth, because of his denial of God.

2)
John Paul said that "The images of hell that Sacred Scripture presents to us must be correctly interpreted," and then interpeted Sacred Scripture in a way I haven't seen before. Does that mean that centuries of Church teachings were flawed?

16 posted on 06/06/2003 4:59:57 PM PDT by exodus
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To: exodus
It is a spiritual separation-----\

Heaven



Hell

A big spiritual difference. I see nothing to criticize here. Artists and we poor humans with only so much imagination have dealt our renderings and understandings as a physical separation.

I truly believe it is spiritual. Total wailing to see the face of God and not being able to.
19 posted on 06/06/2003 5:12:42 PM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: exodus; Salvation
In this passage, John Paul is saying two things that seem to go against my understanding of Church doctrine.

I'll pose the same questions to you, just in case you missed them.

The pope's native tongue is not Italian. That would suggest to me that he did not write this himself in Italian. That raises additional questions:

Which language does the pope use to write his addresses?
Does he even write them, or are they dictated to someone else? If so, in which language?
Who translates them into Italian?
Who proofreads them?
Do they proofread them first in their original language or only in Italian?
How many weekly addresses has the pope delivered in the course of his 25 year pontificate?

As the journalist pointed out in the opening of his article:

The people I am referring to seem to go through papal statements in search of errors and scrutinize the Pope’s activities for inappropriate or imprudent actions.

How many of his weekly addresses have you actually listened to ... correction ... read?

Are there any writings by this pope with which you do agree and if so, which ones?

20 posted on 06/06/2003 5:22:29 PM PDT by NYer (Laudate Dominum)
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To: exodus
If that were the case, one who denied God in this life wouldn't have to wait to die, he would be in Hell right now, on Earth, because of his denial of God.

You may not have experienced this, but I have.

While I've never "denied God," I've certainly had ebbs in my relationship with God. And, when I did, I sought refuge in drink, in spending money, in "noise." I couldn't stand to be alone with myself, or to endure silence. All the while, I knew exactly what was happening, and I was saying "no."

One of the best books I've ever read is "The Hound of Heaven," by Francis Thompson. It details how Christ pursues us, in every facet and corner of our lives, until He forces us to confront Him.

"Yes" or "No" is a decision we're constantly making, not only with God, but with our wives, our children, our work, our involvement with causes outside ourselves.

Often, like St. Paul, the very thing we would not want to do, we do, and we don't do the thing we should.

And we're miserable afterwards. It's hellish.

21 posted on 06/06/2003 5:33:40 PM PDT by sinkspur
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To: exodus
Seems simple to me. The soul is not physical. Thus, "place" must be a metaphysical state.

One is either (finally) with or not-with God. Thus one's place is either in Heaven or not.

After the resurrection of the body (hasn't happened yet) Hell will be a "place." In the meantime, it's a state of being.
26 posted on 06/06/2003 6:27:37 PM PDT by ninenot (Joe McCarthy was RIGHT, but Drank Too Much)
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