Posted on 05/20/2003 4:18:33 PM PDT by RMrattlesnake
By Darren Morrison
When I got saved it was not in what I would call a spiritually grounded church. But I did get saved according to scriptures, I did repent of my sin turning toward GOD and believing in the lord Jesus Christ. But I was taught early on that all churches were Good as long as they taught about Jesus. I mean to say that they accepted most doctrines but not all. They were critical of Mormons and Jehovah’s Witnesses, but not much more than that. So I went to several churches. I wanted to get as much of Christ as I could. My church at the time met on Sundays and had a bible study on Thursday night. So on Wednesday I went to a Pentecostal church and on Tuesday there was a home church that had a bible study. At that time I was very lonely. I was recently divorced and so I wanted to go to church every day of the week. My desire to be in church as often as I did was a sign of my hunger as well as my loneliness and it was a good thing to desire for sure. But I was a babe in Christ and didn’t know any better. I had a non-inspired Bible, The NIV that kept me hungry.
Well after a while I would stumble and a fall. And get discouraged but I trudged forward because I knew that God was real and what was in my heart was real. The Church I started in was a little charismatic. I call it today charismatic lite. Because they were not obviously charismatic it was more a side line a thing that some people did and was accepted. The Vineyard runs the gambit. Some are very charismatic even to the point of insanity and others are almost like a southern Baptist church. I don’t know any better way to explain it. But when I left the Vineyard I began to go to a church called the Potters House. The Potters House was a tongue speaking Pentecostal church where they didn’t hide their tongue speaking.
To start out I will tell you where I first saw and heard the craziness. I was in California. I was still a babe in Christ, but I wanted to grow. But even though I was not well versed I know the things I saw were not right. I saw holy laughter, where people would whip them selves up in a euphoric state then someone would say something funny and people would start to laugh. As the mood grew people would laugh even more and silliness would arise. They said it was the holy sprit, so I would pray for the Holy Spirit to do it to me and nothing would happen. Sometimes I was the only one who was not laughing. One might think that I would feel something was wrong with me, but it wasn’t. Because I know I was saved and I know that GOD would hear my prayers, so somehow this was wrong. I remember that when I was a kid my brother and I would start laughing at things and as it escalated we would laugh at anything because we were in on of those child like moods and we could laugh at anything. Laughter is a wonderful thing and laughter makes you feel good. But this was not of the Holy Spirit.
Well then there was what followed this holy laughter it was drunk in the spirit. Now this was nonsense. I knew it. I could see through it event though I was so young in the lord. The folks at the California Vineyard may have been so called Christians. That means I think some were like me truly saved and some were not because they only did the 123 repeat after prayer. But these leaders and ones who have been believers longer than me were in fact not much, if at all, more mature than me. The Vineyard is a church of easy believism they only milk-feeds the flock. And they read uninspired watered down versions of the bible. So these were milk-fed Christians at best. Scripture could not back up this drunk in the spirit business. I asked my small group leader and he could not answer me.
But the most bizarre thing done in was the animal noises. There was a small group of people who would say that they were lead by the spirit to make Lion noises. They would roar like lions. Using bible verses that mentioned lions to somehow justify this. But when they got on all fours and roared some got on the ground and shook and there was even one that barked like a dog. Well this was not the spirit of GOD. It was frightening and my wife who had not been saved was frightened. I did the right thing. I walked out and never darkened the door of that church again. This was an eerie evil sound to hear and not what the Holy Spirit is about.
Well back in Colorado I wound up in a Pentecostal church called the Potters House. They wanted me to experience the Holy Spirit and I could not support that with scriptures so I let it pass. I heard their tongues and it was a bunch of noises that they would repent over and over again. I keep going because the people were nice to me and I was at a very lonely time in my life. I have always been a skeptical Christian I trusted the bible but I do not trust mankind. I ask about this tongues and I read the scriptures and what I could figure it was actual languages not this repeating nonsense. I took the pastor aside and asked where does the bible support what you are doing he pointed out Acts 2. Well I had to again leave another church because the tongues in Acts 2 was not what they were doing. You see Tongues is nothing more than an old word for languages. That is all the word means, not some gibber gabber as they do. The miracle of language was intelligible, orderly speech communication and expression in foreign tongues. Whole churches are built upon this misinterpretation of scriptures.
With all this silliness that you hear in the Charismatic churches. This really boils down to one thing. These people are seeking experiences. Thay want signs and wonders and so they make them up to make them feel as though they are close to GOD on their terms. They make demands of GOD in there prayers as if they have the power to tell GOD what to do. I have heard them pray and say “come holy sprit come” As if the Holy Spirit is their dog they can tell to heel. Then there is the mayhem of people feeling that the Holy Spirit is making them interrupt the service. I Corinthians 14:27. If any man speaks in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret. 28. But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.
Now I know that some of these people are sincere and most are very nice people and I think many of them are even saved. Many of them have been lea wrong and are really only trying to do what is right by the lord. I know this because I have fellowshipped with them. We must pray for are charismatic friends and co-workers and family members. Maybe the reason I didn’t fall for all this hokey pokey was that some one was praying for me. One thing if you have the Holy Spirit with you it is there always. You receive the Holy Spirit the moment you repent and believe not after. The Holy Spirit is not there for you to make it do what you want. It is there to make you do what GOD wants you to do. We need the Holy Spirit to help us understand the bible, GOD’s word. We need the Holy Spirit to help us since when something is not right like false doctrines.
I used to be a part of a charismatic group in the latter part of my days in the "novus ordo" - that was before I began realizing what Catholicism was truly about.
It took a while before finding out how Catholicism and charismania are incompatible with each other. Although I would have never known the full extent of the crisis within the Church otherwise - it's not something that people should be playing around with. As they say, however, God makes good out of bad things. So I finally figured out what to read that will help me learn more about my faith, and I go to a traditional Mass not far from home nowadays.
I also hear that this movement is being opposed by protestant groups, which is good - I see the movement as part of a plan to "eliminate" doctrine, not barriers between different faiths.
Did they by any chance talk to you about things like interpretation of tongues and prophecy? In my personal experience, the group gave what sounded like good teachings, but it was the overall atmosphere that showed me that it was all taken out of context.
Check out Close-ups of the Charismatic Movement by John Vennari if you can. It should help explain in more detail why this movement is dangerous.
I never had to worry about spiritual dryness, but I'm worried about many of my friends who are still involved with it.
I also attended my daughter's church which was Pentecostal. There the congregation engaged in tongues and running. At some moment one or two people would take off running around the church. This was a little scary, but I was a pre VII Catholic, so any expressions of faith or love were deemed out of bounds. But the tongues were still respectfully sung/spoken there.
I have seen some of the laughing and 'slaying in the spirit' on the religious TV programs and have come to the conclusion that to those who are not just faking it, all of these activities are an emotional response to an overwhelming stimulus. Is it contact with the Holy Spirit that is the overwhelming stimulus? I believe that it is occasionally. Just as some may express joy or love with tears or jumping up and down, I believe some of these people are so overwhelmed by the touch of the Holy Spirit that they respond in a way that many of us may believe to be strange. But I think the Father accepts any form of worship and praise that is offered to Him by His children.
There is hardly a Christian in America who hasn't been tainted by their craziness and probable outright blasphemy.
I became a catholic but there are problems there, too, lots of them. Unless you isolate yourself and only attend mass (even there you get priests who are into something odd and try to sell it via the pulpit) and the sacraments, you are going to butt horns with someone promoting something that is highly questionable.
Normally I was a very sociable being but all this has made me want to keep to myself.
Incidentally, if people want to just get together and pray in my native language which happens to be English, in the name of Jesus Christ, in a normal, orderly way, and keep their hands to themselves, I am pretty flexible and ecumenical about who I am willing to fellowship with.
The only other people I avoid are the ones who are ready with "that look" when you don't want to join their denomination and they just know you are going to hell when you are not where they think you should be in your Christian walk.
this darned kjv only lot is cultish in its obstinance
That said, it is one thing to question the weirdness of the charismatic movement. I myself question a lot.
However, pride is also a sin. And this article is full of it.
That depends on what your definition of "it" is...
would that be hyperliteralism in the sacraments or an extrabiblical papacy that claims the vicar or Christ? (despite the fact a number of popes were dirtbags), or a mass spoken in a dead language that no one can understand?
No disrespect meant, but how hard did you look?
Uh huh..........
what.......oh yeah - this is a Prot bash thread - silly me - I lost my head
my bad
This thread was posted by a protestant, about a movement that can be found with in nearly every sect of Christianity, including Catholic. It was an ecumenical dis-fest.
so its ok then - sorry - Its still a prot bash thread (albeit a righty bashing a lefty)
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