The Council of Trent teaches that Christ Himself is truly Present after the Consecration and that the Sacred Host is immolated and offered up to the Father in sacrifice. Since this is truly Christ Himself, and not just a symbolic presence as Protestants believe, the offering is a true reenactment of the Cross of Calvery, an unbloody sacrifice: Protestants do not believe in the Real Presence. Christ's presence is virtual only, in the assembly and in the Scripture readings--precisely the emphasis given in the Novus Ordo. The Protestant ritual is a memorial meal, a commemoration of Christ's sacrifice, a looking-back on what happened two thousand years ago once and for all. Nothing is immolated. There is, in fact, no altar of immolation, no priesthood to do the immolating, no sacrifice per se.
Duh. I know all this. I am as Catholic as you purport to be. Stop the lecturing and get on with the evidence for the assertions you make.
In imitation of this, the Novus Ordo calls the priest a "presider" and emphasizes the virtual presence of Christ--ignoring His Real Presence, suppressing, in fact, this central Catholic dogma. You claim the sacrificial structure has not been destroyed. But Bugnini started where Luther began--by tossing out the Offertory and substituting a prayer of thanks. There is no Offertory in the new Mass--none, zilch. The "Presentation of the gifts" make no allusion to our sinfulness or to the nature of the sacrifice.
Blind assertion. Are you so into your dogma that you can't see that you are only parroting things and are providing no compelling argument?
As for your being "a smart guy"--I don't think so. You apparently don't understand the fundamental meanings behind the Mass which all traditional Catholics commonly appreciate. You assume the Novus Ordo is Catholic--since you've been brought up to believe it is. But it is theologically Protestant--and just barely valid as a Mass. It supports none of the ancient teachings about the Real Presence, about His unbloody sacrifice, about the need for propitiation for our sins.
More assertion.
These are fundamental Catholic doctrines--which you seem to think are "rants" or "pet theories" on my part, rather than the perennial teachings of the Church. You need to read the Council of Trent.
What if I read Trent and don't agree with you? Maybe you need to understand that your rants are not arguments.
OK, you like the Latin Mass. You think it does a better job explaining teachings. More power to you.
But to attack the NO Mass just because you don't like it is why you marginalize yourself. I get all of Catholic theology from the NO Mass, without being told 12 times. And it drives you crazy.
You keep lecturing me on Catholic belief, cause your paradigm is shattered. Your arguments are only effedtive against the ignorant NO Catholic. In this manner you are no better than the Protestants who steal our ignorant sheep.
SD
we should recognize our common fatherhood as God's children, even if we have theological differences. In the Novus Ordo World, the baptized and unbaptized share a common fatherhood as God's children
I get all of Catholic theology from the NO Mass. Exactly, this is what the Trads have asserted all along.
You need lecturing. You show a lot of ignorance in addition to having a penchant for responding in an aggressive, surly way. You didn't have a clue about the nature of the sacrifice of the Mass and know even less about the radical changes imposed by the Novus Ordo. You ask me continuously to prove the obvious, such as the fact that the priest's role has been converted to that of a "presider" in the Lutheran fashion, or that the Real Presence is ignored in the Novus Ordo in favor of the Virtual Presence of Christ in the Word and in the assembly.
Let's begin with the latter. The Consecration of the bread and wine has just taken place in the Novus Ordo. Then what happens? Does the priest turn to the Father Almighty with a prayer of propitiation or supplication as he offers to Him the Sacred Body and Blood of Christ? Far from it. With the Real Presence on the altar, he turns to the ASSEMBLY to ask it to RECALL that Christ has died, has risen, and WILL COME again--totally ignoring what had just happened. And so it goes, thoroughly protestantizing the liturgical action from that point on. Does he even ask the assembly to show adoration? Not on your life. Communion is distributed in the hand by lay ministers placed on an equal footing with the priest--in other words, in the Protestant way--kneeling is prohibited, no external expression of acknowledging the Divine Presence is permitted. Our wonderful selves, singing something innane such as One Bread One Body, become the focus of our attention. And all this is only one part of the corruption of the whole. These little protestantizing touches permeate the new Mass, starting with the dumping of the Offertory and proceeding to emulate the commemorative meal that was specifically condemned by Trent.
As for your claim that I rant, that I have marginalized myself, that I don't prove what I say--you are fairly new to these threads if you think that I have not provided proof after proof until my fingers are numb from typing--and refuted not only you--but twenty others as clueless as you at the same time. Nor am I at all marginalized as you seem to believe since I am a drop in a rising tide of a flood which is sweeping the world and which the Vatican is having a dickens of a time opposing. It is having a rough time because it has departed from Catholic Tradition and took millions of Catholics along for its modernist ride. Now it is having misgivings--as it views the wreckage of its own fecklessness the past forty years.