[Polycarp]

The RC forum now consists of the far right: schismatics, integrists, ultra-traditionalists, and even the odd sedevacantist.

I still post a bit on the Religion Forum. Does that make me a schismatic, an integrist, an ultra-traditionalist, or the odd sedevacantist?

I agree that sitetest and patent and siobhan are sorely missed, but I think you have gravely insulted the majority of us non-integrist orthodox Catholics who remain.

[Petronski]

sitetest and patent and siobhan

What happened?

[SoothingDave]

I think you have gravely insulted the majority of us non-integrist orthodox Catholics who remain

Hear hear! I have never been to a Latin Mass, am a post-VII kid. The fact is that my parish and diocese do the NO reverently, with little unauthorized "innovation."

Of coruse, this discussion is now proving steve's point.

SD

[sinkspur]

I agree that sitetest and patent and siobhan are sorely missed, but I think you have gravely insulted the majority of us non-integrist orthodox Catholics who remain.

"Gravely insulted?"

Brian, you are gravely insulted by any number of things, not the least of which is my very presence on this forum. You've questioned by faith, you've said you were ashamed of my presence here, and your lame apology was so qualified as to be meaningless.

You're a traditionalist, Doctor. You will attend a Tridentine Mass over a Novus Ordo, if given the choice. That's what I'm saying.

You really ought to stop playing the victim. It doesn't become you, and nobody believes it anyway.

[Cap'n Crunch]

Hi Doc! Hi General!

Been working alot of OT and off duty jobs lately so I'm just catching up on my day off.

I think I'm in the 'kook' category so I'm still here.

Learning quite a bit also, thanks to the great Catholic posters here on FR.

[Cap'n Crunch]

Boy, I guess I'm really out of the loop, what happened to sitetest, patent and siobhan???

[sitetest]

Dear Polycarp,


"I agree that sitetest and patent and siobhan are sorely missed..."


Thank you for saying that. But I'm still here. I told you I'd be cutting back on posting. But I haven't left by any means.

But sinkspur has a good point. There are about 65 million nominal Catholics in the United States. Perhaps 20 or 30 million are active, practicing Catholics.

There are perhaps a few hundred thousand, if that many, who are enmeshed in the recent schisms of the SSPX and other groups, including out-of-communion integrists and sedevacantists.

Even "traditionalists" still in communion with the Church (I hate calling folks who prefer the indult, or prefer indult parishes "traditionalists", because it wrongly suggests that they are separate from the rest of faithful Catholics - they are not) number only perhaps a hundred thousand or so.

In our own archdiocese, with three indult Masses offered each Sunday, in different parts of the archdiocese, at different times, maybe a thousand or so folks attend these Masses on a given Sunday.

The extremely overwhelming number of Catholics (something north of 95%) are what the schismatics, the sedevacantists, the heretics, and even many of the devout Catholic traditionalists refer to as "novus ordo Catholics" or worse, "neo-Catholics".

But you wouldn't think it from looking at FR. I haven't done the arithmetic, but I'm positive that the schismatics, sedevacantists, heretics, and devout Catholic traditionalists here make up a far greater number than 5% of those overall who profess some sort of Catholic belief and tie. If I had to guess, I'd say it was close to half.

And even of us ordinary Catholics, the furthest to the "left" would likely be sinkspur (I might not be far to the right of him), and he is to the right of the overwhelming number of Catholics in the real world.

I don't like categorizing Catholics "right" vs. "left", but indulging in that metaphor, I think that sinkspur is right to point out that the breadth of opinion here at FR is dramatically truncated.

The "far left" at FR is just a little to the left of our Holy Father, if that much. The Holy Father, himself, isn't far from the left-most place in the spectrum, as represented here at FR. And the right goes all the way past Catholic to lunatic fringe sedevacantist heretic. And they represent a fair number of the Catholic and near-Catholic posters here at FR!

No, sinkspur is right. FR is dramatically unrepresentative of Catholicism at large in the non-virtual world. Reading FR, one would think that the schismatic voice has weight and credibility in the non-virtual Catholic world. One would not realize that the schismatics are a poor, pathetic group of lost sheep, that our Holy Father has set out to find and recover, the one lost sheep that he leaves the other 99 to seek out. One would not realize that the overwhelming number of Catholics are unaware or only most vaguely aware of the schisms.

Myself, I knew a little about the lefebvreite schism prior to coming to FR. But I knew nothing of the SSPV (now reunited to the Catholic Church), or the SSP2.5 or the CMRI or that there were actually any sedevacantists, or the various "popes" of the different lunatic fringe groups, etc., etc., etc.

Yet, these voice just about dominate the "RC" Caucus at FR.

It is a shame.


sitetest

[BlackElk]

Catholicism is, of course, an objective fact. One is either Catholic or not Catholic.

Those who are immersed in and drowning (or long since drowned) in the waters of the "spirit of Vatican II" as opposed to the work of the Council itself, those who favor "equal rights" for practitioners of anal sex before the law, those who are loyal to the teachings of the Voice of the Faithful or of "Sister" Hobday or other witches (do we spell that differently in our centuries as Van Johnson said in Brigadoon?) but never a default position showing proper respect for the papacy, and others of their ilk may disagree and think Catholicism is subjective and in the eye of the beholder or that AmChurch leftism equates to Catholicism which it certainly does not.

You are a Catholic. You are the standard and among those who are the standard. The winds of change blow in a new direction consistent with the history of the actual Roman Catholic Church, as indicated by Cardinal Arinze, and by Dario Cardinal Castrillon de Hoyos's Tridentine Mass at St. Mary Maggiore on May 25, and by the upcoming Vatican liturgical crackdown on "do-it-yourself" Masses, as Cardinal Arinze termed it, and the expansion of the Mass of our ancestors to a matter of right. Such a grave rejection of a rapidly aging generation of revolutionary AmChurch bishops, dying and retiring in increasing numbers and many replaced by Catholic successors. They have stood in the hallway and blocked up the doors to Catholicism for too, too long. Wait for the AmChurch whining if Cardinal McPhony is indicted! Sweet music! We are about to enter a no-Kumbaya zone!

Patent was back at his post just a few days ago and doing his usual level-headed and orthodox job.

Aren't the sedevacantists the ones who make a career of pope-bashing, even if they are minor clergy?

The "far right", according to the termites of AmChurch is anyone who is Catholic like thee, like me, like those allergic to Kumbayaism in all its forms. Their termite dreams die but die hard. Tough! They should not let the door, etc.

[narses]

Sink remains as bitter as the first day I posted here. He proclaimed me to be a schismatic heretic then and has never changed his mind.