Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

To: Gamecock
Eph 2:10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

Not trying to be obtuse, but I don't see the connection. What was created beforehand? Us, or the good works? Seems like maybe the good works, since we would be awkward to say we walk in ourselves. Perhaps the two clauses have different objects... but, aren't we created in Christ Jesus when we are saved, and not before?

Heb 9:15 Therefore He is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance...

And if I contend that all are called, but not all choose, it wouldn't contradict this verse. Interestingly, my bible cross-references this verse to Matthew 22:3
"And he sent out his slaves to call those who had been invited to the wedding feast, and they were unwilling to come. "

would guess when you when you heard the effectual call, and accepted Christ, you were devistated at your condition and came with a broken heart, much like my pool of water analogy?

Well, yes, the pool of water does more accurately reflect it. But there was also a tension - an inner conflict, the urge to both do it, and the urge not to do it. It seemed balanced on the edge of a knife, with my soul in the balance. It also seems I chose, and as soon as I did, I felt the water of the pool rushing over and thru me.

And, as I told Rnmomof7, I want to thank you for bearing with me in this discussion.
78 posted on 05/15/2003 11:42:37 AM PDT by FactQuest
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 72 | View Replies ]


To: FactQuest
And, as I told Rnmomof7, I want to thank you for bearing with me in this discussion.

No need for thanks. I find this a very stimulating exercise!

I know I come across strongly, but I have come to the point in my walk where I take this very seriously. I used to be a free willer, but reading scripture with a neutral mind has changed that.

Believe it or not I go home at night and reread these posts to see if I am missing something from your perspective. I trust you are finding it stimulating as well. The important thing to remember is this: Our salvation is in Christ.

My church is Reformed in theology, but free willers are welcome into full membership, to partake in the Lord's Supper, and to be baptized according their belief (age wise that is, we do sprinkle, no one has yet asked to be dunked so stay tuned).

The only limitation is officers must accept the scripture as described in The Westminster Confession. Actually, we are more tolerant to opposing views than some free will churches. (I'm not going to name names)

Now then, lets look at your quote in Ephesians. You quote Eph 2:10. Who is the writer addressing?

Eph 2:1 As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, 2 in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. 3 All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our sinful nature and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature objects of wrath. 4 But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions--it is by grace you have been saved. 6And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, 7 in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. 8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God-- 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. 10For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

He is clearly talking to those who are saved. Again why are we saved? Well, verse 10 indicates that God already had the plan for those of us who are saved. Using my own argument, why are some saved and others not? Again, Romans seems to spell it out quite clearly:

Romans 9:10 Not only that, but Rebekah's children had one and the same father, our father Isaac. 11Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad--in order that God's purpose in election might stand: 12not by works but by him who calls--she was told, "The older will serve the younger."

Also here:

Romans 11:6 And if by grace, then it is no longer by works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace. 7What then? What Israel sought so earnestly it did not obtain, but the elect did. {What's that? Isreal wanted it, but only the elect got it? Is that free will?} The others were hardened, {Hardened? What happened to free will}8 as it is written: "God gave them a spirit of stupor, eyes so that they could not see and ears so that they could not hear, to this very day."

---------

Heb 9:15 Therefore He is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance... And if I contend that all are called, but not all choose, it wouldn't contradict this verse.

Actually it doesn't say all are called, but those who are called, sounds exclusive, not inclusive. This verse clearly reflects those who are effectually called, according to (here's that word again) predestination.

Matthew 22:3 shows that others may be called, but will not accept. Again, who are they and why do they not answer? God choose them!

Romans 8:28: And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose. 29 For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.

I would wager a cold coke I know what you will say here, but I'll wait and see.

80 posted on 05/15/2003 1:00:31 PM PDT by Gamecock (The PCA; We're the "intolerant" ones! (As seen on Taglinus FreeRepublicus, 11th Edition)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 78 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson