[FactQuest]

Those of us who agree with Calvin believe that man has a free will.

Thanks. I'm still in the process of graduating from a light theological background, and still working some of this out.

I guess the parts about irresistable grace, and total depravity, sure make it sound like man is a robot, without any "real" free will. Can you give me a pointer on how these are not mutually exclusive with free will?

[Gamecock]

still working some of this out

It took my wife years to finally accept the absolute soveriegnty of God.

Let's do this one step at a time, start with the term irresistable grace. I can't remember who used the analogy, but think of yourself in a desert without water. (use that as an analogy for sin) You come accross a pool full of cold, clear water (grace) Now, you certainly have free will, but what are you going to do? You are going to immerse yourself. You realize how thirsty you are can't resist. Yes you have free will, but are you cannot pass it by when you are dying of thirst/sin.

[Gamecock]

Now for part two, total depravity.

sure make it sound like man is a robot, without any "real" free will

Does total depravity mean that we are as bad as we can be, or that we are bad enough to reject God if left to our own devices? We are so bad that we will choose sin. Look at someone who is in a fallen state. They will continue their sinful behavior, unless called by God. They don't have the desire to come to God on their own. A bold statement? It is totaly based in scripture.

Romans 3, 9 What shall we conclude then? Are we any better? Not at all! We have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under sin. 10 As it is written: "There is no one righteous, not even one; 11 there is no one who understands, no one who seeks God. 12 All have turned away, they have together become worthless; there is no one who does good, not even one."

Friend, read this passage again. Does this say that we have enough good in us to come to Christ, or that no one will seek God?

Now, would you like more?

Genesis 8:21 And the LORD smelled a sweet savour; and the LORD said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done

Psalm 51:5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.

Romans 7: 18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

Isaiah 64:6, "But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousness are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away."

Read these verses and think about where the Bible says our hearts are and the term total depravity