[Hermann the Cherusker]

The Church has GROWN since Vatican II. In most areas, like my own parish, you have to shoehorn people into the pews at almost every Mass.

Only because the number of parishes constructed in the suburbs is a fraction of the empty or closed parishes in the cities. Sure it looks crowded when you force 10,000 families into one parish.

If you carefully peruse the Catholic Directory, you can see the mass apostasy before your eyes in the carefully laid out statistics. 1/4 of those Baptised never take First Communion, 1/4 of those taking First Communion are never Confirmed. Another 1/4 of those Confirmed never Marry within the Church. The Church is seen to be "growing" only by pretending that all these apostates are still Catholic and keeping them on the parish registers.

There has only been one true area of growth within the Church in the past 40 years - the number of Bishops has gone way up, even as the number of priests and faithful is way down.

You seem to think that Catholics, who spend 6 and 3/4 days per week NOT at a Catholic Church, aren't influenced by cultural trends.

"Behold I have overcome the world."

It's a guaranteed certainty that, with or without Vatican II, the percentage of Catholics who attend Mass weekly would be EXACTLY where it is today.

Really?

In 1962, over 75% of 48 million Catholics were at Mass every Sunday - 36 million.

In 2003, 25-33% of 60 million Catholics are at Mass every Sudnay - 15-20 million.

I wholeheartedly disagree with you.

[sinkspur]

I wholeheartedly disagree with you.

Of course you do, Hermann. And, if you were in charge, we'd still be praying for the "perfidious Jews" on Good Friday, and performing wedding ceremonies between Catholics and non-Catholics in the rectory.

[american colleen]

In 1962, over 75% of 48 million Catholics were at Mass every Sunday - 36 million.

In 2003, 25-33% of 60 million Catholics are at Mass every Sudnay - 15-20 million.

Bet ya the figures for mainline Protestant denoms are roughly the same, if not worse. And they didn't have no Vatican II!

[Salvation]

Do you have a source for your percentage statistics?

In Philadelphia what are the trends?

[saradippity]

The population has increased by almost 100,000,000 and your figures show an increase of 12,000,000 Catholics. To have kept up with the population increase the Catholic Church should have picked up at least 16,000,000 if not 20,000,000. The person you are responding to needs to get in touch with reality.All this burgeoning church blah blah is bunk.

I believe that these overinflated figures we get from the "progressive" wing of the church is an excuse to hire more chancery officials;kind of an emplyment program for ex priests and nuns. It also gives the naughty old bishops reason to extend their deacon program,yucko.