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To: All
Did I type all that? Sorry everyone :-(
631 posted on 04/30/2003 7:25:16 AM PDT by so_real (It's all about sharing the Weather)
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To: so_real
Feel free to type as much as you like; serious theological discussion on FR has been lacking for several months.
632 posted on 04/30/2003 8:08:33 AM PDT by jude24 ("Facts? You can use facts to prove anything that's even REMOTELY true!" - Homer Simpson)
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To: so_real; RnMomof7; rwfromkansas
Did I type all that? Sorry everyone

No, don't be! I disagree with it, but it is very well done.

First, I agree with this statement: but using the selection process of the Twelve Apostles to validate an entire theology of the "elect" is bewildering.

Now, why do I disagree? In the Reformed Faith, we don't take one piece of scripture and build doctrine around said passage. Rather, we use scripture to interpret scripture. What does that mean? Well, I look at this passage and ask what does the rest of the Bible teach?

So, let's see: God choose Abraham, and Israel. God choose Jonah and Paul. And if you look at the following scriptures, God choose his elect:

Romans 9:15 "For he says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion." (God will do whatever he wants)

1 Thessalonians 5:9 "For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ." (Who is "us?" In the context of the passage, the elect.)

Romans 9:17 "For the Scripture says to Pharaoh: "I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth." (Sounds like Pharoah didn't have a choice. Other passages in Exodus clearly state God hardened Pharoah's heart. Now, why would he harden a heart if free will exists. This flies in the face of free will)

Isaiah 55:11 "so is my word that goes out from my mouth: It will not return to me empty, but will accomplish what I desire and achieve the purpose for which I sent it" (What God decrees will happen. None of this God wants you to do something and I might do it.)

There are several more, but I think if you read through it all, it is clear, God has choosen some to himself.

But most reply, "God is a loving God! I don't believe He would do that!" Paul anticipated that very question:

Romans 9:19 One of you will say to me: "Then why does God still blame us? For who resists his will?" 20But who are you, O man, to talk back to God? "Shall what is formed say to him who formed it, 'Why did you make me like this?' " 21Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for noble purposes and some for common use? 22What if God, choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath--prepared for destruction? 23What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory-- 24even us, whom he also called, not only from the Jews but also from the Gentiles? (God made us (the pottery) and can do with us what he wants. A lot of folks say God knew the decision we would make, and we were made elect because of that. This passage clearly states the opposite. We cannot resist His will! We have no objection. And don't forget, the unsaved don't care! They are getting exactly what they want.)

And who are we to question Gods purpose? Does not the great prophet say "As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts." Isaiah 55:9 (We will not understand why he does what he does. Scripture is clear, he chooses some!)

644 posted on 04/30/2003 7:19:48 PM PDT by Gamecock (5 SOLAS)
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