[drstevej]

First, remember that I am not a double predestinarian.

Second, Paul in Romans 9 expected you to conclude God is unjust. Dr. SL Johnson used to tell us, "Men when you preach the gospel, if people don't say that you are presenting doctrine that makes God seem unjust, then you probably aren't preaching Paul's gospel!"

[jude24]

First, remember that I am not a double predestinarian.

How's that work, in light of this?

So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires. (Romans 9:18 NASB)

(This bodes well to be the most informative Calvinism thread in a long time. Everyone, thus far, is calmly and rationally discussing the topics without hurt feelings -- or that freakin' abuse button.)

[P-Marlowe]

How do you avoid double predestinarianism if it is the Good pleasure of God's will ONLY only that determines who will or will not be saved?

If God provides irresistible grace to some and to all others he provides no means whatsoever for repentance, or salvation, then by definition those who are created without the ability to respond to the gospel have been created for the sole purpose of being condemned to hell for eternity. If man has no ability because he was created that way by God, then he is surely predestined for hell in the same manner as those who have been "graced" with that ability are predestined for salvation.

I don't see how if there is predestination according to irresistible grace that there cannot be predestination according to God directed and God ordained inherent inability to respond to the gospel message.

Enlighten me.

[P-Marlowe]

***Second, Paul in Romans 9 expected you to conclude God is unjust. ***

I disagree wholehartedly with that conclusion. If you have a free hour, listen to this and let me know what you think.

http://www.xenos.org/realmedia/ram/rom/rom9-1.ram

[Gamecock]

Dr. SL Johnson used to tell us, "Men when you preach the gospel, if people don't say that you are presenting doctrine that makes God seem unjust, then you probably aren't preaching Paul's gospel!

BRAVO, BRAVO! </ standing ovation>