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The Theology of John Calvin
http://www.markers.com/ink/bbwcalvin2.htm ^ | Benjamin B. Warfield (1851-1921)

Posted on 04/19/2003 7:32:39 AM PDT by drstevej

The Theology of John Calvin


by Benjamin B. Warfield (1851-1921)
 
This essay appeared in a booklet published by the Presbyterian Board of Education in 1909. The electronic edition of this article was scanned and edited by Shane Rosenthal for Reformation Ink. It is in the public domain and may be freely copied and distributed.

The subject of this address is the theology of John Calvin and I shall ask leave to take this subject rather broadly, that is to say, to attempt not so much to describe the personal peculiarities of John Calvin as a theologian, as to indicate in broad outlines the determining characteristics of the theology which he taught. I wish to speak, in other words, about Calvinism, that great system of religious thought which bears John Calvin's name, and which also--although of course he was not its author, but only one of its chief exponents--bears indelibly impressed upon it the marks of his formative hand and of his systematizing genius. Of all the teachers who have wrought into it their minds and hearts since its revival in that tremendous religious upheaval we call the Reformation, this system of thought owes most perhaps to John Calvin and has therefore justly borne since then his name. And of all the services which Calvin has rendered to humanity--and they are neither few nor small--the greatest was undoubtedly his gift to it afresh of this system of religious thought, quickened into new life by the forces of his genius, and it is therefore just that he should be most widely remembered by it. When we are seeking to probe to the heart of Calvinism, we are exploring also most thoroughly the heart of John Calvin. Calvinism is his greatest and most significant monument, and he who adequately understands it will best understand him.

It was about a hundred years ago that Max Gobel first set the scholars at work upon the attempt clearly to formulate the formative principle of Calvinism. A long line of distinguished thinkers have exhausted themselves in the task without attaining, we must confess, altogether consistent results. The great difficulty has been that the formative and distinctive principles of Calvinism have been confused, and men have busied themselves rather in indicating the points of difference by which Calvinism is distinguished from other theological tendencies than in seeking out the germinal principle of which it itself is the unfolding.

The particular theological tendency with which Calvinism has been contrasted in such discussions is, as was natural, the sister system of Lutheranism, with which it divided the heritage of the Reformation. Now undoubtedly somewhat different spirits do inform Calvinism and Lutheranism. And equally undoubtedly, the disunguishing spirit of Calvinism is due to its formative principle and is not to be accounted for by extraneous circumstances of origin or antecedents, such as for example, the democratic instincts of the Swiss, or the superior humanistic culture of its first teachers, or their tendency to intellectualism or to radicalism. But it is gravely misleading to identify the formative principle of either type of Protestantism with its prominent points of difference from the others. They have vastly more in common than in distinction. And nothing could be more misleading than to trace all their differences, as to their roots, to the fundamental place given in the two systems respectively to the principles of predestination and justification by faith.

In the first place, the doctrine of predestination is not the formative principle of Calvinism, it is only its logical implication. It is not the root from which Calvinism springs, it is one of the branches which it has inevitably thrown out. And so little is it the peculiarity of Calvinism, that it underlay and gave its form and power to the whole Reformation movement--which was, as from the spiritual point of view a great revival of religion, so from the doctrinal point of view a great revival of Augustinianism. There was, accordingly, no difference among the Reformers on this point; Luther and Melanchthon and the compromizing Butzer were no less zealous for absolute predestination than Zwingli and Calvin. Even Zwingli could not surpass Luther in sharp and unqualified assertion of this doctrine; and it was not Calvin but Melanchthon who paused, even in his first preliminary statement of the elements of the Protestant faith, to give it formal assertion and elaboration.

Just as little can the doctrine of justification by faith be represented as specifically Lutheran. It is as central to the Reformed as to the Lutheran system. Nay, it is only in the Reformed system that it retains the purity of its conception and resists the tendency to make it a doctrine of justification on account of; instead of by, faith. It is true that Lutheranism is prone to rest in faith as a kind of ultimate fact, while Calvinism penetrates to its causes, and places faith in its due relation to the other products of God's activity looking to the salvation of man. And this difference may, on due consideration, conduct us back to the formative principle of each type of thought. But it, too, is rather an outgrowth of the divergent formative principles than the embodiment of them. Lutheranism, sprung from the throes of a guilt-burdened soul seeking peace with God, finds peace in faith, and stops right there. It is so absorbed in rejoicing in the blessings which flow from faith that it refuses or neglects to inquire whence faith itself flows. It thus loses itself in a sort of divine euthumia, and knows, and will know nothing beyond the peace of the justified soul. Calvinism asks with the same eagerness as Lutheranism the great question, "What shall I do to be saved?" and answers it precisely as Lutheranism answers it. But it cannot stop there. The deeper question presses upon it, "Whence this faith by which I am justified?" And the deeper response suffuses all the chambers of the soul with praise, "From the free gift of God alone, to the praise of the glory of His grace." Thus Calvinism withdraws the eye from the soul and its destiny and fixes it on God and His glory. It has zeal, no doubt, for salvation but its highest zeal is for the honour of God, and it is this that quickens its emotions and vitalizes its efforts. It begins, it centres and it ends with the vision of God in His glory and it sets itself; before all things, to render to God His rights in every sphere of life-activity.

If thus the formative principle of Calvinism is not to be identified with the points of difference which it has developed with its sister type of Protestantism, Lutheranism, much less can it be identified with those heads of doctrine--severally or in sum--which have been singled out by its own rebellious daughter, Arminianism, as its specially vunerable points. The "five points of Calvinism," we have no doubt learned to call them, and not without justice. They are, each and every one of them, essential elements in the Calvinistic system, the denial of which in any of their essential details is logically the rejection of the entirety of Calvinism; and in their sum they provide what is far from being a bad epitome of the Calvinistic system. The sovereignty of the election of God, the substitutive definiteness of the atonement of Christ, the inability of the sinful will to good, the creative energy of the saving grace of the Spirit, the safety of the redeemed soul in the keeping of its Redeemer,--are not these the distinctive teachings of Calvinism, as precious to every Calvinist's heart as they are necessary to the integrity of the system? Selected as the objects of the Arminian assault, these "five-points" have been reaffirmed, therefore, with the constancy of profound conviction by the whole Calvinistic world. It is well however to bear in mind that they owe their prominence in our minds to the Arminian debate, and however well fitted they may prove in point of fact to stand as a fair epitome of Cavinistic doctrine, they are historically at least only the Calvinistic obverse of "the five points of Arminianism." And certainly they can put in no claim, either severally or in sum, to announce the formative principle of Calvinism, whose outworking in the several departments of doctrine they rather are--though of course they may surely and directly conduct us back to that formative principle, as the only root out of which just this body of doctrine could grow. Clearly at the root of the stock which bears these branches must lie a most profound sense of God and an equally profound sense of the relation in which the creature stands to God, whether conceived merely as creature or, more specifically as sinful creature. It is the vision of God and His Majesty, in a word, which lies at the foundation of the entirety of Calvinistic thinking.

The exact formulation of the formative principle of Calvinism, as I have said, has taxed the acumen of a long line of distinguished thinkers. Many modes of stating it have been proposed. Perhaps after all, however, its simplest statement is the best. It lies then, let me repeat, in a profound apprehension of God in His majesty, with the poignant realization which inevitably accompanies this apprehension, of the relation sustained to God by the creature as such, and particularly by the sinful creature. The Calvinist is the man who has seen God, and who, having seen God in His glory, is filled on the one hand, with a sense of his own unworthiness to stand in God's sight as a creature, and much more as a sinner, and on the other hand, with adoring wonder that nevertheless this God is a God who receives sinners. He who believes in God without reserve and is determined that God shall be God to him, in all his thinking, feeling, willing--in the entire compass of his life activities, intellectual, moral, spiritual--throughout all his individual, social, religious relations--is, by the force of that strictest of all logic which presides over the outworking of principles into thought and life, by the very necessity of the case, a Calvinist.

If we wish to reduce this statement to a more formal theoretical form, we may say perhaps, that Calvinism in its fundamental idea implies three things. In it, (i) objectively speaking, theism comes to its rights; (ii) subjectively speaking, the religious relation attains its purity; (iii) soteriologically speaking, evangelical religion finds at length its full expression and its secure stability. Theism comes to its rights only in a teleological view of the universe, which recognizes in the whole course of events the orderly working out of the plan of God, whose will is consequently conceived as the ultimate cause of all things. The religious relation attains its purity only when an attitude of absolute dependence on God is not merely assumed, as in the act, say, of prayer, but is sustained through all the activities of life, intellectual, emotional, executive. And evangelical religion reaches its full manifestation and its stable form only when the sinful soul rests in humble, self-emptying trust purely on the God of grace as the immediate and sole source of all the efficiency which enters into its salvation. From these things shine out upon us the formative principle of Calvinism. The Calvinist is the man who sees God behind all phenomena, and in all that occurs recognizes the hand of God, working out His will; who makes the attitude of the soul to God in prayer the permanent attitude in all its life activities; and who casts himself on the grace of God alone, excluding every trace of dependence on self from the whole work of his salvation.

I think it important to insist here that Calvinism is not a specific variety of theistic thought, religious experience, evangelical faith, but the perfect expression of these things. The difference between it and other forms of theism, religion, evangelicalism, is a difference not of kind but of degree. There are not many kinds of theism, religion, evangelicalism, each with its own special characteristics, among which men are at liberty to choose, as may suit their individual tastes. There is but one kind of theism, religion, evangelicalism, and if there are several constructions laying claim to these names they differ from one another, not as correlative species of a more inclusive genus, but only as more or less good or bad specimens of the same thing differ from one another.

Calvinism comes forward simply as pure theism, religion, evangelicalism, as over against less pure theism, religion, evangelicalism. It does not take its position then by the side of other types of these things; it takes its place over them, as what they too ought to be. It has no difficulty thus, in recognizing the theistic character of all truly theistic thought, the religious note in all really religious manifestations, the evangelical quality of all actual evangelical faith. It refuses to be set antagonistically over against these where they really exist in any degree. It claims them in every instance of their emergence as its own, and seeks only to give them their due place in thought and life. Whoever believes in God, whoever recognizes his dependence on God, whoever hears in his heart the echo of the Soli Deo gloria of the evangelical profession--by whatever name he may call himself; by whatever logical puzzles his understanding may be confused--Calvinism recognizes such as its own, and as only requiring to give full validity to those fundamental principles which underlie and give its body to all true religion to become explicitly a Calvinist.

Calvinism is born, we perceive, of the sense of God. God fills the whole horizon of the Calvinist's feeling and thought. One of the consequences which flow from this is the high supernaturalism which informs at once his religious consciousness and his doctrinal construction. Calvinism indeed would not be badly defined as the tendency which is determined to do justice to the immediately supernatural, as in the first so in the second creation. The strength and purity of its apprehension of the supernatural Fact (which is God) removes all embarrassment from it in the presence of the supernatural act (which is miracle). In everything which enters into the process of the recovery of sinful man to good and to God, it is impelled by the force of its first principle to assign the initiative to God. A supernatural revelation in which God makes known to man His will and His purposes of grace; a supernatural record of the revelation in a supernaturally given Book, in which God gives His revelation permanence and extension ,--such things are to the Calvinist matters of course. And above all things, he can but insist with the utmost strenuousness on the immediate supernaturalness of the actual work of redemption; this of course, in its impetration. It is no strain to his faith to believe in a supernatural Redeemer, breaking His way to earth through a Virgin's womb, bursting the bonds of death and returning to His Father's side to share the glory which He had with the Father before the world was. Nor can he doubt that this supernaturally purchased redemption is applied to the soul in an equally supernatural work of the Holy Spirit.

Thus it comes about that monergistic regeneration--"irresistible grace," "effectual calling," our older theologians called it,--becomes the hinge of the Calvinistic soteriology, and lies much more deeply imbedded in the system than many a doctrine more closely connected with it in the popular mind. Indeed, the soteriological significance of predestination itself consists to the Calvinist largely in the safeguard it affords to the immediate supernaturalness of salvation. What lies at the heart of his soteriology is absolute exclusion of creaturely efficiency in the induction of the saving process, that the pure grace of God in salvation may be magnified. Only so could he express his sense of men's complete dependence as sinners on the free mercy of a saving God; or extrude the evil leaven of synergism, by which God is robbed of His glory and man is encouraged to attribute to some power, some act, some initiative of his own, his participation in that salvation which in reality has come to him from pure grace.

There is nothing therefore, against which Calvinism sets its face with more firmness than every form and degree of auto-soterism. Above everything else, it is determined to recognize God, in His son Jesus Christ, acting through the Holy Spirit whom He has sent, as our veritable Saviour. To Calvinism, sinful man stands in need, not of inducements or assistance to save himself; but precisely of saving; and Jesus Christ has come not to advise, or urge, or woo, or help him to save himself; but to save him; to save him through the prevalent working on him of the Holy Spirit. This is the root of the Calvinistic soteriology, and it is because this deep sense of human helplessness and this profound consciousness of indebtedness for all that enters into salvation to the free grace of God is the root of its soteriology, that election becomes to Calvinism the cor cordis of the Gospel. He who knows that it is God who has chosen him, and not he who has chosen God, and that he owes every step and stage of his salvation to the working out of this choice of God, would be an ingrate indeed if he gave not the whole glory of his salvation to the inexplicable election of the Divine love.

Calvinism however, is not merely a soteriology. Deep as its interest is in salvation, it cannot escape the question--"Why should God thus intervene in the lives of sinners to rescue them from the consequences of their sin?" And it cannot miss the answer--"Because it is to the praise of the glory of His grace." Thus it cannot pause until it places the scheme of salvation itself in relation with a complete world-view in which it becomes subsidiary to the glory of the Lord God Almighty. If all things are from God, so to Calvinism all things are also unto God, and to it God will be all in all. It is born of the reflection in the heart of man of the glory of a God who will not give His honour to another, and draws its life from constant gaze upon this great image. And let us not fail punctually to note, that "it is the only system in which the whole order of the world is thus brought into a rational unity with the doctrine of grace, and in which the glorification of God is carried out with absolute completeness." Therefore the future of Christianity--as its past has done--lies in its hands. For, it is certainly.true, as has been said by a profound thinker of our own time, that "it is only with such a universal conception of God, established in a living way, that we can face with hope of complete conquest all the spiritual dangers and terrors of our times." "It, however," as the same thinker continues, "is deep enough and large enough and divine enough, rightly understood, to confront them and do battle with them all in vindication of the Creator, Preserver and Governor of the world, and of the Justice and Love of the divine Personality."

This is the system of doctrine to the elaboration and defence of which John Calvin gave all his powers nearly four hundred years ago. And it is chiefly because he gave all his powers to commending to us this system of doctrine, that we are here today to thank God for giving to the world the man who has given to the world this precious gift.


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To: P-Marlowe; Calvinist_Dark_Lord; RnMomof7
Should I repeat the question?

Only if you haven't yet read CDL's post #452; RnMom's post #432.

God created Paul (and all of us) to be true to our fallen and sinful natures.

Paul did just what God created him to do, i.e. kill Christians, blaspheme, deny God.

God also created Paul to renounce his evil life and become a devoted example of God's grace for all of us to follow.

God created Judas in the same way, but he wasn't as fortunate as Paul.

God's the director; we're the players; the script has been written from before time. And the flickering shadows cannot change the celluloid images once God has yelled "Cut." That's because God is also the producer, set designer, location manager, make-up man, ticket-taker and projectionist.

461 posted on 04/28/2003 5:48:34 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg (There are very few shades of gray.)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
Paul did just what God created him to do, i.e. kill Christians, blaspheme, deny God.

No, good DR,( I know, I know, who am I calling good!)Paul sinned against God, as he knew better. He chose to sin, killing men, women and children,telling himself that he was doing God's will, but he knew the ten commandments, he knew everything in the Hebrew bible. Now you really are blaming God for our sins.

462 posted on 04/28/2003 5:54:49 PM PDT by JesseShurun (The Hazzardous Duke)
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To: JesseShurun; RnMomof7; P-Marlowe; Calvinist_Dark_Lord; Law; rwfromkansas; so_real
As RnMom used to ask, over and over, "Why does one man choose God and another not?" If we're all fallen and none of us seeks the face of God, what makes the difference?

The Calvinist would say the difference is God's choice. God chooses to open hardened hearts to His gracious gift of faith.

And if we are among the fortunate recipients, we will (eventually) realize it and do God's bidding, happily, thankfully, confidently.

463 posted on 04/28/2003 5:57:47 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg (There are very few shades of gray.)
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To: rwfromkansas
So God was kidding huh? He really doesn't set before man life or death and ask him to choose. Instead God arbitrarily decides life or death for each person and lets that person know at the time of the Judgement how God decided to choose for him.

Yeah, I suppose you could get that from reading Deut 30:19.... but only if you read it through Calvin colored glasses.

464 posted on 04/28/2003 6:01:50 PM PDT by P-Marlowe (Choose life.... No, on second thought I'll choose for you. (Calvin's God))
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
Paul had no excuse for his actions, as he was taught better, same as a Christian who gets up from Wednesday night prayer and decides to kill Muslims. That is not God's will for either.

Again, her question is moot: man cannot choose God

465 posted on 04/28/2003 6:02:22 PM PDT by JesseShurun (The Hazzardous Duke)
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To: JesseShurun; P-Marlowe; RnMomof7; Calvinist_Dark_Lord; rwfromkansas; so_real
evil...is outside of God.

God does not possess evil.

But nothing is outside of God; God created everything -- including all voids, all evils, all sin, all light and darkness, all pain, all pleasure; all purpose, all taxes, all bruises, all saxophones, all pity, all promises, all goodness, all people, all places, all things.

Or else He isn't God.

IMO, through Scripture and God-given grace and logic, all understanding flows from this awareness of God's enormity.

466 posted on 04/28/2003 6:09:28 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg (There are very few shades of gray.)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
If Paul had been righteous,he could have just as easily asked God to reveal the truth of Christianity to him before he joined the stoning crowd, and as God did purpose to use him as an apostle, Paul could have avoided the sin of murder. God did not need Paul's sins to accomplish his purposes.
467 posted on 04/28/2003 6:10:15 PM PDT by JesseShurun (The Hazzardous Duke)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
No, to be cast into the outer darkness will be to be where God is not. Again, it's a state of being, there is no God there
468 posted on 04/28/2003 6:12:30 PM PDT by JesseShurun (The Hazzardous Duke)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
(just as there is not a little speck of God in each and everyone of us. No HS inside of you, there is a place where God is not. It may exist, God created it, but He is not in attendance
469 posted on 04/28/2003 6:15:08 PM PDT by JesseShurun (The Hazzardous Duke)
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To: JesseShurun
He chose to sin, killing men, women and children,telling himself that he was doing God's will, but he knew the ten commandments, he knew everything in the Hebrew bible

As a Pharisee's Pharisee, he thought he was doing God's work. Remember, the Torah had strict penalties for worshiping false gods. He did not even realize he was sinning, he thought he was righteous by his deeds. (We've read the story, so of course we know better)

Only when his sin was exposed to his heart did he realize what he was doing. Calvinists will say that is the same way it works in all Christians.

Now, when you read the story of Paul's conversion, deep in your heart, do you think he really had a free will? God in heaven speaks directly to him, blinds him, and he is terrified! Right away he sees that he is a sinner.

Not convinced? What about Jonah? Don't do God's will and you get eaten by a great fish until you repent and agree to do what God says. No free will in that story.

Still don't buy into it? Reread the 6th chapter of Isaiah and look at the fear God will put into the prophet's heart someone's heart! When God exposes our sin thought the Holy Spirit, we are also undone and realize that God wants us!

His message is so compelling that we thirst after it, just like water on a hot day. If we reject either one we are dead! Drinking water is free will, but how many will turn it down walking through the desert? God's Word is water for our soul. We will not turn it down!

470 posted on 04/28/2003 6:21:31 PM PDT by Gamecock (5 SOLAS)
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To: Gamecock
Again, Paul knew the ten commandments, so he knew killing was a sin. God does not need our sins. That's man's arrogance talking now
471 posted on 04/28/2003 6:24:48 PM PDT by JesseShurun (The Hazzardous Duke)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
God does not possess evil.

God created it, but he does not possess it? That's really stupid. What, did he pass the ball? If he doesn't posess that which he created, then he is not God. The same logic can be used against your argument.

Why do you guys insist on placing the blame for evil directly on a God who is proclaimed as good and who deplores evil

Frankly I am quite amazed at the direction this discussion has gone. To suggest that God is the creator and author of all that is evil in the universe is twisted at best. If you believe in such a God, then I would have to number you among the [FR 5th Amendment]s as those who do not believe in the same God that I worship.

Sorry.

472 posted on 04/28/2003 6:30:23 PM PDT by P-Marlowe
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To: All; P-Marlowe; JesseShurun; Dr. Eckleburg
Notice how in the absence of a certain [FR 5th Amnedment] actual theological discussion has returned to Free Republic.
473 posted on 04/28/2003 6:32:08 PM PDT by drstevej
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To: drstevej
Yes, hallelujah! )Fun isn't it, and no Kathy Lee GIFfords
474 posted on 04/28/2003 6:34:53 PM PDT by JesseShurun (The Hazzardous Duke)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg; Seven_0; RnMomof7
So God tricks himself into restricting His total knowledge and just focuses on partial knowledge, keeping the best for last?

Yes! That's it! Well, that's almost it. I don't know about keeping the best for last. It's just my opinion, but I rather think God enjoys the trip as much as the end of the journey. Just like parents on Earth, it's fun to hold out your hands and help your child take his first steps, not knowing if he'll be football player, or gymnist, or what-have-you.

As far as restricting His total knowledge, there is Biblical precedent for it.

Mat 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

Mark 13:32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

And also, with credit to Seven_0 and RnMomof7 for posts 338 and 342, we know that God is also capable of un-remembering

Heb 8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

Isa 43:25 I, [even] I, [am] he that blotteth out thy transgressions for mine own sake, and will not remember thy sins.

Hbr 10:17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

In fact, there is nothing He is incapable of.

Jer 32:27 Behold, I [am] the LORD, the God of all flesh: is there any thing too hard for me?

With Biblical precedent, it's not a far stretch to suspect that God is aware of what He wants to be aware of, when He wants to be aware of it. If so, there is no paradox. There are none created unredeemable. No one can claim to hold God accountable for their damnation. And "squishy" Bible verses like Luke 12:35-48 become more clear.

And also, Matthew 12 verses 36 and 37: "But I tell you that men will have to give account on the day of judgment for every careless word they have spoken. For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned."

If God has predetermined our judgement, He must also have predetermined our words. If He condemns us by our words, and our words are predetermined by Him, what is He condemning really?
475 posted on 04/28/2003 6:34:58 PM PDT by so_real (It's all about sharing the Weather)
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To: drstevej
Its starting to get a little tense in here doc. But we have gone nearly 500 posts without a moderator pulling a post or yanking the thread. That alone is an acheivement.
476 posted on 04/28/2003 6:36:37 PM PDT by P-Marlowe
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To: rwfromkansas
Interesting translation in your tagline.

The excerpt is from the new English Standard Version. It's remarkably accurate and clear without being dumbed down. Highly recommended.

477 posted on 04/28/2003 6:39:38 PM PDT by Law ("So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God..." [Romans 9:16])
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To: P-Marlowe
Tense is fine. The issues are not trivial. But I haven't seen a war of ***'s
478 posted on 04/28/2003 6:40:03 PM PDT by drstevej
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To: JesseShurun
You are correct. Evil is what exists outside of God. If there were no God there would be only darkness and evil. God did not create the darkness, he created the light. He said let there be light. He did not have to first say "let there be darkness." Just as Darkness leaves when the light is turned on, so evil departs when God makes his appearance.

These guys that suggest that God is the creator of evil are clearly bordering on blasphemy. And if they're not, then I am. Somebody's in trouble here. That's for sure.

479 posted on 04/28/2003 6:51:37 PM PDT by P-Marlowe
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To: JesseShurun
I believe that God chooses man, that man can never find God on his own, thus the hopelessness of man-centered religions.

I agree with you. Everyone's name is written in the Book of Life first and then blotted out as necessary. The Holy Spirit reaches out to everyone and the only unforgivable sin is to try to prevent this. (But I'd still say that even though God chose man first, it's still man's calling to choose God in return ;-)
480 posted on 04/28/2003 6:56:01 PM PDT by so_real (It's all about sharing the Weather)
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