The Theology of John Calvin

http://www.markers.com/ink/bbwcalvin2.htm ^ | Benjamin B. Warfield (1851-1921)

[RnMomof7]

In numerous Bible passages God indicates that we have a choice to make: good or evil. I take Him at face value that there is a real choice to be made (meaning nothing is predetermined), that we are responsible for making the choice, and that we will be perfectly judged according to our choice. Because I take Him at His word, I strive to understand how that could be possible, and this is the best of what I could come up with.

Indeed we do have choices ..choices that are goverened by the our preferences , abilities and location , sex, etc...all of which were forordained by God.

The question is not ever can man choose as he will but WHY man chooses what he will.

[RnMomof7]

I think that it is speculation with merit. I like it.
Heb 8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

Isa 43:25   I, [even] I, [am] he that blotteth out thy transgressions for mine own sake, and will not remember thy sins.

Hbr 10:17   And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

Num 23:19 God [is] not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do [it]? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?

Jer 32:27 Behold, I [am] the LORD, the God of all flesh: is there any thing too hard for me?

[Corin Stormhands]

I do not think you mean that REALLY :>)

No, that's exactly what I mean.

I don't think you (and Calvinism in general) can grasp the concept of God being in control of all things without pulling every string.

I don't have a problem believing God is big enough to do that.

Perhaps your God is too small.

[P-Marlowe]

Mom's problem is not that she is a Calvinist, but IMHO she has coverted to hyper-Calvinism. She seems to be of the opinion that God actually created the vast majority of people solely for the purpose of roasing their little hinies in Hell for eternity, and that God does this because it gives him pleasure.

She may feel free to correct me if I misundersood her, but from her last two posts to me, it appears that this is her attitude.

Perhaps your God is too small.

LOL! That seems to be Mom's favorite phrase. Turnabout is fair play.

[P-Marlowe]

Sorry forgot to ping you.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Remember the movie BACK TO THE FUTURE II?

Biff, the bad guy, steals a Sports Almanac from 1985 and takes it back to 1955, giving him all the winning scores for the next 30 years.

Those games were played; the scores were written in that book; they occurred in time and nothing could change them.

Our lives and all existence have been written in the mind of God. And nothing can change them. We don't know their outcome because we don't have a copy of the book that is God's plan.

So we play on, performing according to our abilities and will and guidance and desire.

But every play, every pitch, every free-throw, every foul, every win and loss, has already been written in that book.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

IMO, there's no such thing as hyper-Calvinism. It's a term Arminians cooked up to discredit arguments they can't refute.

Eventually, when the scales of free will fall, they fall completely...with the inevitable THUD.

Listen for them.

[P-Marlowe]

I have no problem with your analysis on post 346.

[P-Marlowe]

IMO, there's no such thing as hyper-Calvinism. It's a term Arminians cooked up to discredit arguments they can't refute.

Actually to a true Arminian every Calvinist is a hyper calvinist. The term Hyper Calvinist has been adopted by mainline Calvinists to refute notions about Calvinism that Arminians assume every Calvinist subscribes to.

The following 5 points are the marks of a Hyper-Calvinist (The more marks, the more hyper):

1. The denial of the gospel call.
2. The denial of faith as a duty.
3. The denial of the gospel offer.
4. The denial of common grace.
5. The denial of God's love toward the reprobate.

Do you have any of the marks of a Hyper-Calvinist? Do you believe that All calvinists have all these marks or that no Calvinist has any?

Here is an excellent primer on the subject (Written by a Calvinist):

Primer on Hyper-Calvinism

Let me know what you think.

[P-Marlowe]

BTW all you are describing is the infinite foreknowledge of God. Foreknowledge does not mean causation. Thus if God knows we are going to sin on Friday, we will sin on Friday, but God will not be the cause of that sin any more than Biff was the cause of all those scores in the book coming to pass. There was nothing Biff could do to change the outcome either. The scores were written in the book and they were writtn in the book from the foundation of the printing of that book. (Which of course in this case is outside the time dimension).

The big difference is that God CAN change the scores in the book. And if he does change them, --let's say in answer to our prayers-- then he has effectively changed them even from the foundation of the earth. Thus those changes that God could have made or did make in response to our prayers have always existed and in point of fact were never actually changes, but the plan of God from the beginning.

Ponder that and understand that God is infinite. God is not Biff. Biff is not God.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

I linked you to that site last week.

It's a very good site, but I think in their youthful zeal to reach out, they are shaving the edges off their theology so as to injure the all-important feelings of as few readers as possible.

However, be sure to read their chapter on Arminius.

If you say the hyper-Calvinist is one who sits in his darkened room and ruminates on the peeling paint, stuck in his lethargy because "everything's already been decided," then yes, none of us is a hyper-Calvinist. (Although this is definitely the image Arminians try to project as Calvinists of any sort).

If, instead, you ignore subdivisions meant to obfuscate, and ask instead, are you a five-point Calvinist (Dr. Steve excepted) who believes that God is in control of everything, now and forever, and that man's responsibility is to live a devout, fruitful and obediant life because Christ instructed us to, and in doing so, we then realize anyone living accordingly is probably going to end up in heaven due to Christ's gracious sacrifice, then most Calvinists I know would say, "Me, too."

Finally, if you agree with Calvinism, and thus, we're down to debating "hyper-Calvinism"...well then, Hallelujah, Brother!

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Reread your post three times. It makes no sense.

IF the scores are in the book, THEY CAN NOT BE CHANGED.

But you say God can change them from before time.

THEN THEY'D BE IN THE BOOK AS THE SCORES THAT STOOD IN THE FIRST PLACE.

You're too logical not to see the contradiction that makes your point absurd.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Ah, but now we see you do have a problem with #346.

And that's a common problem for Arminians...contradictions.

[Gamecock]

I don't think you (and Calvinism in general) can grasp the concept of God being in control of all things without pulling every string.
And of course Armenians can't give up the pride they have believing they have one ounce of ability to turn to Christ of their own volition.

Ya'll are partially right, before we receive the effectual calling of the Holy Spirit, we have a free will, but our hearts are so corrupted that we will, every time, choose sin. However once we are called by the Holy Spirit our hearts are layed bare and we are crushed, we still have free will, but we have no choice but to choose Christ. That, my friends, is quite clear in scripture.

Friends, when we pray, are we not commanded to say "Thy will be done, On earth as it is in heaven"? Our will, no! Thy will be done! Here, just as in Heaven!

Armenians can twist scripture, hold out one verse as proof that man has the ability to come to Christ of his own will. They can call us names and accuse the One True God of being a monster. Don't you realize God is answering you in this passage:

Romans 9: 20 But who are you, O man, to talk back to God? "Shall what is formed say to him who formed it, 'Why did you make me like this?'" 21Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for noble purposes and some for common use? 22What if God, choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath--prepared for destruction?

But only when Armenians read The Holy Word of God with an open heart and mind, will they crumble to their knees and stop worshiping their own abilities and admit it is God who rules everything!

[Gamecock]

Paging Dr. Eckleburg to post 354, Dr. Eckleburg, post 354!

[P-Marlowe]

THEN THEY'D BE IN THE BOOK AS THE SCORES THAT STOOD IN THE FIRST PLACE.

Yes indeed they would be wouldn't they? That is what is so amazing about God.

Think about it. I have to go to church.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

I know if you weren't rushing off to church you'd offer a much better response than one reminiscent of Ill**y's.

8~)<

That's my happy face, praying.

[Corin Stormhands]

IMO, there's no such thing as hyper-Calvinism. It's a term Arminians cooked up to discredit arguments they can't refute.

Actually I think Calvinists coined the term when they had to say "OH NO, of course we don't mean THAT!"

But of course, they really do. ;-)

[Corin Stormhands]

Biff, the bad guy, steals a Sports Almanac from 1985 and takes it back to 1955, giving him all the winning scores for the next 30 years.

But you see, even that speaks to man's limited understanding. You try to box God into man's timeframe.

For God, 1955 is no different than 1985 or 1685 or 285, etc.

[Corin Stormhands]

And of course Armenians can't give up the pride they have believing they have one ounce of ability to turn to Christ of their own volition.

Well thanks for playing, but I won't read your post beyond there. If that's your concept of what Arminians believe, you don't understand Aminianism.

Of course, I could say that's the stubborn muleheaded nature of Calvinism.

But I won't.