Rabbi warns: Some Christians are attempting to convert Jews

PJ Star.Com (Journal Star) ^ | April 1, 2003 | Sarah Okeson

[ComtedeMaistre]

Rabbi warns: Some Christians are attempting to convert Jews

Speaker says congregations should watch out for Southern Baptists, Assemblies of God

April 1, 2003

By SARAH OKESON of the Journal Star

PEORIA - Jews believing in Jesus as savior, says Rabbi Michael Cook, makes about as much sense as an International Society of Vegetarians for Meat.

"How can you eat meat and still be a vegetarian?" Cook asked.

Cook, perhaps the only rabbi in the United States with a Ph.D. in the New Testament, talked to about 60 people Monday at the synagogue shared by the two Jewish congregations in Peoria.

Cook, a professor at the Hebrew Union College-Jewish Institute of Religion in Cincinnati, said some Christian denominations have stepped up their efforts to convert Jews in the belief it will help bring about the second coming of Christ.

"They believe the only way that glorious end of the world can happen is if enough Jews move to Israel first or accept Jesus," Cook said.

He predicted Jews have about three more decades of strenuous conversion efforts to suffer through because the last time this happened - after the first millennium - efforts to convert Jews didn’t die out until 1035.

"We have 32 years of missionary fervor to get through," Cook said.

In the meantime, Cook ran through a list of believers to watch out for including Southern Baptists, Assemblies of God, Jews for Jesus and Messianic Jews.

He said Southern Baptist and Assemblies of God are sometimes misleading in their efforts to convert Jews and that Jews for Jesus was founded by a Baptist minister.

"Their big desire is to convert Jews without Jews knowing they are leaving the Jewish fold," Cook said of Jews for Jesus.

The rabbi said Catholics and liberal Protestants stopped trying to convert Jews after the Holocaust and said Jews had a convenant with God and didn’t need to worry about being saved.

[Illbay]

As far as "godship" is concerned, we don't view it that way. Rather, we believe the words of Christ, who taught that if we take upon ourselves His name, we are joint-heirs with Him, and will inherit "all the Father hath."

I suppose that your sect has changed or ignored those passages in the Bible where this is promised, but we have not.

[Illbay]

UMBRELLAS UP.

[Illbay]

Correct.

One distinctive difference between Latter-Day Saint doctrine and that of sectarian Christianity, is that we believe that Christ and God the Father are separate beings, though "one" in purpose.

We believe that Christ and Lucifer--the angel who became Satan--both submitted "plans" to God the Father, regarding the salvation of man. Lucifer would have removed free will, in essence assuring that ALL would have been saved whether they would or not.

Christ's plan allowed free will.

His was the plan that was chosen. Lucifer and other spirits rebelled, and were cast out. Lucifer became Satan, the Devil, the Father of Lies.

[Illbay]

Sounds familiar.

[Illbay]

Funny, you don't look Saguaro.

[ovrtaxt]

Very, very emotion-based sects.

emotion BASED? Better be careful there...

By the way, we are created in the image of God. You think God is unemotional? If you want to believe in a Mr. Spock god, go ahead.

[Asher]

"So if you are born a Jew, you don't need Christ, because you are "special"?"

On the contrary, your type of person needs Christ because you are not special.

And yes, I do believe that the Jews are very special. You naturally do not because you are far too ordinary to want to see it.

For my part, I don't believe that Christ ever existed, but I have absolutely no problem with those who do, and, you never know, I could possibly be wrong I suppose.

[Illbay]

FWIW, I believe that all the tribes of Israel are "special." There is no tribe that is held above any other.

Those who truly accept Christ and are baptized by proper authority in His name, are (if they are not already of Israel) "grafted in".

I am of the tribe of Ephraim, for example.

[Alouette]

I am of the tribe of Ephraim, for example.

Got DNA?

[Illbay]

No, got Patriarchal Blessing.

[Gurn]

Michael, the Archangel, was the man Adam. Gabriel was Noah in mortality.

What is your Scriptural basis for this statement?

[Illbay]

They are scriptures you probably don't have.

[Just mythoughts]

Do not want to argue.

Not familiar with this idea that Lucifer submitted a "plan".

Where is that Written?

Lucifer rebelled against our Heavenly Father, thus called Satan. Satan is called many names, devil, serpent, destroyer, King of Tyre, King of Babylon, Abaddon, in Hebrew and Apollyon in the Greek, dragon, death, etc.....

Ezekiel 28 gives the best description of Lucifer - Satan and the most he was given was the "the anoited cherub that covereth". His position was to cover the mercy seat, no more and no less, but it was his pride that caused him to rebell and we are told that he drew a third of our Heavenly Father's children with him in that rebellion.

Reason why Genesis 1:2 Talks about the heaven and earth becoming void and without form. Cabal is best word to describe what happened.

Ezekiel 28:2 "Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyrus, 'Thus saith the Lord God;

'Because thine heart is lifted up, and thou hast said, "I am a GOD, I sit in the seat of God, in the midst of the seas;' yet thou art a man, and not GOD. though thou set thine heart as the heart of God: (Isaiah 14:16)

[Illbay]

http://scriptures.lds.org/abr/3

[Anitius Severinus Boethius]

And, I hope I confuse things further, what is the difference between a "heart-felt" belief and a "belief that you suscribe to"?

This is what I have been trying to describe and what you are trying to ignore. You keep insisting on trying to have emotion be an element of the discussion; it isn't.

Imagine two men who claim to be Christian. One will tell you that, yes, he believes in Jesus and believes in moral actions and to prove he does he points out that he is a board member of his church and has a fish symbol on his car. Yet he lies in business, cheats on his wife, and holds grudges against others.

The other will tell you that he is a Christian, but he works odd hours and can't attend Church every Sunday morning. But he prays an hour every day, reads his Bible regularly, and gives generously to the church with his wallet and the Boys and Girls club with his time. He's not perfect, but everyone who knows him will tell you that he will forgive you if you cross him and he asks for forgiveness if he crosses you.

Now who has a heartfelt belief in Christianity and who merely subscribes to the beliefs he speaks about? From my description, it's pretty obvious. Nothing about the emotional state of either man is relevent, one just really believes his beliefs while the other is very shallow in his beliefs. Heartfelt - nothing to do with emotion.

[Illbay]

A really, really good explanation.

[Revelation 911]

They are scriptures you probably don't have.

you didnt answer the question

Gurn: What is your Scriptural basis for this statement?

[Corin Stormhands]

Very interesting comment from someone whose whole system of belief is based on a "burning bosom."

[nina0113]

The rabbi said Catholics and liberal Protestants stopped trying to convert Jews after the Holocaust

Is that what he thinks? I pray daily for the conversion of one particular secular Jew who is married to a devout Catholic - since he has no faith at all (and after September 11th told his wife how much he envied hers).