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Life After Death or Soul Sleep? (Soul Sleep: heresy or error?)
OmegaGeneration ^

Posted on 03/13/2003 2:33:51 PM PST by xzins

Life After Death or Soul Sleep?

          What happens after a person dies?  Do they have a spirit that either goes to heaven or hell?  Or does their soul merely sleep in the grave, trapped inside their decaying body?  While orthodox Christians have believed for centuries that the dead go either to heaven or hell, there has been a growing trend toward the latter view, which is called the "doctrine of soul sleep."  To determine who is correct, we must search the scriptures carefully to get the complete picture.
          The advocates of soul sleep do not look at every Bible passage on this subject.  They limit their view to a few isolated verses, which seem to support it.  For example, Jesus likened death to sleep in John 11:11 and Matt. 9:24.  Death has also been described as sleep in Job 7:21, Psa. 13:3, Dan. 12:2, 1 Cor. 11:30 & 15:51.  Thus, these well-meaning folks seem to have scriptural support for their doctrine.
          However, one of the main principles of hermeneutics is that the Bible is its own best interpreter.  All doctrines must, therefore, be based upon what every verse about a particular subject says.  No verses should be ignored or emphasized at the expense of others.  Another important hermeneutical principle is knowing that the Bible often uses metaphors, similes, and other figures of speech.  Many people lack the linguistic skills to recognize such language.  Such is the case with soul sleep.  Both of these principles of interpretation have been neglected for some reason.
          The greatest authority on biblical truth is the Lord Jesus Christ Himself.  The most explicit teaching about life after death, which Jesus provided for us, is Luke 16:19-31.  While many Bibles include a heading over these verses entitled, "Parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus," the scriptures themselves do not identify this as a parable.  While Jesus did begin telling parables in Luke 14:7, He finished in ch. 16:13.  Then, He changed His style in verse 14 to teach about the evil Pharisees.  Verse 18 was a teaching about divorce and adultery.  It should also be noted that Jesus never mentioned any person in His other parables by name.  In this account, however, He identified the beggar as a man named Lazarus.  For these reasons, I consider it erroneous to label this passage as a parable.  Thus, Jesus was not speaking with parables, but teaching.  He intended this to be interpreted literally.
          Another good reason to literally interpret what Jesus said above is that His teaching is consistent with the O.T. belief about sheol (Heb. word for hell).  The Jews defined sheol as "the abode of the dead."  O.T. Jews believed that both saints and sinners went to sheol after death.  The only way this could be possible is if Jesus' description of the afterlife is true.  Thus, the Greek word for hades is the equivalent of the Hebrew word for sheol.  It also means that the abode of the dead literally had two sections  one for saints and the other for sinners, which is exactly what Jesus taught.
          The advocates of soul sleep, however, claim that both sheol and hades should be translated as "grave."  If they really were the linguistic scholars they think they are, they would know that q'eber is the Heb. word for grave.  Its Gk. equivalent is nemion.  Thus, the abode of the dead and the grave are two different places.  One is for the departed spirit, and the other for the dead body.  They should not be confused.
          Jesus referred to the section for dead saints as "Abraham's bosom."  This section was also known as "paradise" by O.T. Jews.  That is why Jesus told the repentant thief, who was crucified with Him, that they would both be together in paradise after they died later that same day (Lk. 23:43).
          Jesus went on to describe how the section for sinners was a place of torment, which was separated from Abraham's bosom by a gulf that no one could cross.  The torment was caused by some type of flame (vs. 24).  The fact that the rich man was able to recognize Abraham and Lazarus further reveals that people retain their cognitive faculties after death.  Thus, the human spirit is not some type of formless blob.  Our spirits have a definite shape, which corresponds to the way we look in the flesh, in order for recognition to be possible.  Even the Father has a particular shape according to Jesus (John 5:37).
          The advocates of soul sleep play another linguistic trick with the way they claim that the Heb. and Gk. words, which are translated as "spirit," should be translated as "breath."  As a result, they change every verse in the Bible about our spirits to refer to our breath instead.  The seriousness of this error is not readily apparent when, for example, you see how they change Jas. 2:26 from, "...as the body without the spirit is dead...," to, "...as the body without the breath is dead..."  To revise every verse this way, however, changes others into nonsense.  Take Heb. 12:23 as an example.  Orthodox translations say that we have come "...to the spirits of just men made perfect."  Soul sleepers change this to, "...the breaths of just men..."  Another example is in 1 Thes. 5:23.  Orthodox translations speak of the process of sanctification purifying one's "whole spirit, soul, and body."  Our breaths do not need sanctification because they cannot be defiled like our spirits.  Thus, this example is very similar to 2 Cor. 7:1, which exhorts us to "cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit..."  Sin exists not only in our flesh, but also in our spirits, not our breath.
          Man is comprised of three parts  spirit, soul, and body.  We are not two-part beings  with only a body and soul.  The essence of our being is spirit, which lives on after the body dies.  The real you is a spirit being, who lives in a mortal body.  Your soul refers to those aspects of your personality, which include your mind, emotions, and free will.
          Biblical proof that we have spirits, who continue to live apart from our bodies after death, can be seen in several passages.  Let's look first at Matt. 17:3-4.  When Jesus was transfigured, Moses appeared to Him along with Elijah.  Moses died in Deut. 34:5.  God buried Moses in the next verse.  Thus, Moses did not appear to Jesus in his physical body.  It was his spirit, who not only appeared so he could be seen by the eye, but also spoke so he could be heard.
          How this can be so is further explained by Paul in 2 Cor. 5:1-8.  Verse 1 refers to our body as an "earthly house" and a "tent."  Thus, the real person is a spirit, who lives inside a tent (body).  Paul went on to say that while we are at home inside our bodies, we are absent from the Lord (vs. 6).  But when we die, we are absent from our body and present with the Lord (vs. 8).
          Moses was not the only saint whose spirit appeared to someone in the Bible.  It happened twice to John in the book of Revelation.  In ch. 19:10, the being, who spoke with John, identified himself as his "fellow servant" and one of his "brethren who have the testimony of Jesus."  Thus, he was a spiritual brother.  In ch. 22:8-9, the being John thought was an angel identified himself as another "fellow servant," who was of his "brethren the prophets."  If soul sleep was true, they could not have been showing John things in heaven.  They would have been confined to their bodies in their graves.
          Rev. 6:9-11 also describes martyred saints, whose spirits were with God in heaven.  When they died, their spirits departed from their bodies and returned to God.  Rev. 5:8-10 is similar.  This passage identifies the 24 elders as people, who were redeemed from among men.  They could not have been in heaven with God if soul sleep was true.  This is further confirmed by Ecc. 12:7.  This verse explicitly states that when our bodies die, our spirits return to God, Who gave them.
          I previously mentioned how Jesus' spirit went to Paradise after He was crucified.  While His body was dead for 3 days in the tomb, Peter said that His spirit went where He could preach to other dead people in a spiritual prison (1 Pet. 3:18-20).  Peter identified these imprisoned people as the sinners who died during Noah's flood.  Just as Abraham spoke to the rich man across the gulf in Luke 16, Jesus preached across that same gulf to the sinners on the other side.  Thus, what Jesus did after His death on the cross was not what the so-called "faith message" says.  Jesus did not suffer on the side of torment.  He went to Paradise with the repentant thief and preached across the gulf to the dead sinners on the other side.
          2 Cor. 12:1-4 also says some amazing things about how it is possible to be absent from our bodies.  Paul said he knew someone, who was caught up to the third heaven and heard inexpressible words that were not lawful to utter.  He went on to say that he did not know if the man, who had this experience, was in his body or out of his body.  Paul expressed his amazement at this twice, in both vss. 2 & 3.  If soul sleepers were correct, this would be impossible because no one could be out of their body if they did not have a spirit.
          It seems to me that the reason the idea of soul sleep is so appealing to those who believe it is because they have a faulty understanding of God's love.  God's love is one of the most appealing attributes of His nature.  However, love is not His only attribute.  I think holiness is His greatest attribute because so many passages describe worshippers prostrating themselves before Him exclaiming, "Holy, holy, holy is the Lord of hosts!"  There is no place where they say, "Love, love, love..."  God's love is wonderful, but it must be balanced with His holiness, which demands justice against those who rebel against His Lordship.
          It also seems that soul sleepers have a faith problem toward God.  To think a loving God would not punish sinners means they do not trust God's fairness.  Neither do they have the faith to trust His infinite wisdom.  I believe God would deal with sinners differently if there was a way to do it.  We should trust that God is wise enough to know that His judgments are best and also loving enough to be fair.  He must know something about the nature of sin to realize that there is no other way to deal with it.
          Anyone, who questions God's fairness, is falling for a similar temptation to what the serpent posed to Adam and Eve in Eden.  Satan influenced our first parents to think God was unfair to withhold anything from them in the garden.  He got them to take their minds off all the good things God created for them to eat and focus upon the only thing He forbade.  Once he succeeded in getting them to question God's fairness, he then called God a liar.  He led them step by step into disobedience, which led to all the wickedness we see upon the earth today.
          While I do not consider the doctrine of soul sleep to be a damnable heresy, it is still in error.  If it creates a subtle feeling against God's fairness, it could lead to worse problems.  Considering what questioning God's fairness did to Adam and Eve, it could lead to similar consequences among soul sleepers.  The truth will never malign God's character.  We can trust that everything He does is not only loving, but also wise, fair, and just.

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KEYWORDS: body; death; resurrection; sleep; soul; spirit
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To: Cvengr
Do you have a body in your dreams?

In one sense, of course, we always have bodies while dreaming. The dead, that is, those who no longer have physical bodies, I presume do not dream. It might be a question for those who believe in soul-sleep, "do soul-sleepers dream?"

But you specifically asked if I have a body in my dreams. I seldom dream nowadays, but did when a lot younger. In some dreams, as I recall, I did not seem to have a body, or at least I was unaware of one. In those dreams I seemed to be a bodiless observer of some odd events. In other dreams I distinctly remember having a body and participating in whatever activity I was dreaming about. However, I consider dreams in the same sense as illusions, the result of a free-running memory system when conscious (waking) control is removed, of which we become aware during that semi-conscious state when just going to sleep or just waking up. Otherwise, they have no significance whatsoever.

Hank

41 posted on 03/15/2003 4:16:00 AM PST by Hank Kerchief
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To: xzins
What difference does it make? Other than take the power of fear out of the hands of organized religion. Besides don't forget to throw in purgatory..there is another place.
I'm just wondering since we go to heaven or hell immediately at death..who are the ones at the Great White Throne Judgement at the end of the book? We get judged again? Bottom line is you are either in Christ or your not,you are either born again or you are not, there are no grey areas with God. That will determine what ever happens regardless of how it happens. What ever you happen to believe doesn't make it true.
42 posted on 03/15/2003 9:28:28 AM PST by BriarBey
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To: BriarBey; Hank Kerchief
It makes a difference because Jesus said, "He who believes in me will never die."

It makes Jesus a liar to say that the opposite of that is true.

If at any point in time a believer in Christ is totally eliminated, then that is the obverse of those words of Jesus.

43 posted on 03/15/2003 9:35:10 AM PST by xzins (Babylon, you have been weighed in the balance and been found wanting!)
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To: All
I remember as a child the cartoons they broadcast over and over about the ghosts coming up out of the graves on Halloween night, trying to impress upon a whole generation the idea of soul sleep.

The notion that the spirit is trapped, unconscious, in the decaying body after death is just icky, to say the least.

Then there were the Frankenstein/Dracula movies of those days, where the only ones who came back from that state of soul sleep were completely evil and terrifying.

All references to heaven were of the sitting on a cloud playing a harp variety.

That aspect of the popular culture was sure trying hard to make death a very frightening thing for children and heaven a very uninteresting and boring place.

The Truth of Christ is liberating.

44 posted on 03/15/2003 11:55:42 AM PST by White Mountain (Jesus said, "... come, follow me." Luke 18:22)
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To: xzins
Since when did sleeping become death? Actually even Jesus refused to call those he raised from the dead...dead. He stated that they were merely sleeping. Plus the point...if there is no measure of time in eternity then how would you know you had even died? It could be nothing more than a blink in time whether you had been dead 2000 yrs. or 2 minutes.
45 posted on 03/15/2003 11:59:43 AM PST by BriarBey
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To: xzins
Oh...and death comes with the lake of fire in the end when BOTH the body and the soul are destroyed.
46 posted on 03/15/2003 12:01:33 PM PST by BriarBey
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To: BriarBey; BibChr; fortheDeclaration
1. The 2000 = 2 minutes idea about the realization of time passage for a human is philosophical. I know of know support for it in scripture.

2. Your point is that death does not occur, but that it is only sleep. This, too, violates scripture. The bible says that it is "given unto man once to die." This is true of all but the final generation which shall be "changed."

3. Every human must die. NO believer shall ever die. They both are true. They must be scripturally reconciled.

4. There is a real physical death for believers. There is NO spiritual death for believers. To remedy the problem of physical death the Lord has provided the resurrection. To remedy the problem of spiritual death, the Lord has provided salvation by grace through faith in Christ Jesus, our Lord.
47 posted on 03/15/2003 12:19:39 PM PST by xzins (Babylon, you have been weighed in the balance and been found wanting!)
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To: xzins
ok..how about a day is as a 1000 yrs. and a 1000 yrs. is as a day. He pretty much blew your time theory right there. He also said not to fear what destroys the body but what destroys the body AND soul. Sorry your brainwashed org. religious beliefs don't pull my chain. And I speak as one..who is nearly 50 and was suppose to be dead years ago...3 open hearts...3 children that were said I couldn't have. ALL because I listened to the voice of the Lord and not man. Do you think I will start listening to man now? The Lord said the Holy Spirit would be our teacher (problem is men are easier to listen to, thus all the false doctrine and fairytale beliefs to keep the masses in line and to build their whorish empire called religion.) Makes me sick. Says there is a way that seems right unto man that leads to destruction. I have met a lot of religious people, they all sound the same, and do not line up with the Sheppard I am to follow. They claim him to be Jesus Christ but in their ways they deny him. You run after your beliefs and I will stick to mine thank you, and we will all find out in the end what is truth and whether we had it. Thats a PROMISE.
48 posted on 03/15/2003 12:35:29 PM PST by BriarBey
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To: BriarBey; BibChr; fortheDeclaration; Corin Stormhands; nobdysfool; Jean Chauvin; RnMomof7; ...
1. ok..how about a day is as a 1000 yrs. and a 1000 yrs. is as a day That is ABOUT GOD and not about man. God can also see the future perfectly, but a human NOR an angel can also do so. You have no idea if timelessness is such with a human.

2. Listen again. Every human WILL DIE. Also, there is no believer who WILL DIE. Those are not my words. They are respectively the words of the apostle Paul and the words of Jesus. They are both true, and you did NOT address them.

3. Jesus said that God is not the God of the dead but of the living. There is no believer in all of time who is now not like Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. "I AM the GOD of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob." Currently GOD is the God of 3 living beings named Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

49 posted on 03/15/2003 2:36:19 PM PST by xzins (Babylon, you have been weighed in the balance and been found wanting!)
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To: P-Marlowe
Are you in "Time" or are you in "Eternity?"

I ~think ~ we are in eternity now?? Anyone agree?

50 posted on 03/15/2003 3:30:27 PM PST by RnMomof7 (There is NONE that seeketh after God..no not one!)
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To: DouglasKC
Is your article from the United Church of Christ?

What makes you sure it was a parable?

51 posted on 03/15/2003 3:33:57 PM PST by RnMomof7 (There is NONE that seeketh after God..no not one!)
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To: DouglasKC
I agree that the spirit goes immediately to the Lord. However I think the bible teaches that the state of the spirit is unconscious and that's also why the term sleep is used so often.

You do not believe in a bodily resurrection ...and you believe the spirit is "unconscious"...was Christ unconscious?

52 posted on 03/15/2003 3:36:28 PM PST by RnMomof7 (There is NONE that seeketh after God..no not one!)
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To: xzins
Luke 23:42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom. 43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

The advocates of soul sleep, however, claim that both sheol and hades should be translated as "grave."

The wicked will "sleep" in hell.
Psalms 9:17 The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God.

Correct your child so he will not end up in hell.
Proverbs 23:13 Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die.
14 Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell.

Hell has fire.
Matthew 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
Mark 9:45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
Mark 9:47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:
James 3:6 And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell.
Revelation 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

Hell is a place of spiritual torment that will be avoided by the righteous. You are better to lose parts of your body in this life than to have them and end up in hell.
Matthew5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. 29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell. 30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

Hell is the place of the soul's destruction.
Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Hell is a cursed place.
Matthew 23:33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell? Luke 16:23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

Hell is real. If you do not know Jesus, be afraid, be very afraid.

53 posted on 03/17/2003 9:04:27 PM PST by God is good
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To: xzins
"Sheol" is a Hebrew word, not Greek, meaning "grave," "hell," and "pit."
54 posted on 03/17/2003 9:06:44 PM PST by God is good
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To: RnMomof7; DouglasKC; God is good
In the death of Lazarus at Bethany, Jesus was informed of the Lazarus' illness and rather than immediately go to heal his friend, he waited. Finally, he decided to go visit.

He told his friends (John 11:11): Our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep; but I am going there to wake him up.

His disciples replied, "Lord, if he sleeps, he will get better." JESUS HAD BEEN SPEAKING OF HIS DEATH, BUT HE DISCIPLES THOUGHT HE MEANT NATURAL SLEEP.

So then he told them plainly, "Lazarus is dead, and for your sake I am glad I was not there."

It is certain from the above that the word SLEEP is used as a euphemism at that time. It is used as such by Jesus and others.

We are told that it means DEATH. It does not mean ACTUAL sleep.

55 posted on 03/17/2003 11:57:45 PM PST by xzins (Babylon, you have been weighed in the balance and been found wanting!)
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Comment #56 Removed by Moderator

To: Mr. Sola Fide
Alas, xzins is no more. He withdrew from FR and asked that his account be deleted.
57 posted on 03/18/2003 4:23:44 PM PST by drstevej
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To: drstevej
Is this true? I'm thinking of going
58 posted on 03/18/2003 4:25:27 PM PST by JesseShurun
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To: JesseShurun
Yep, it's true. However, I hope you'll stay.

59 posted on 03/18/2003 4:31:36 PM PST by drstevej (StayJesse Stay!)
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To: drstevej
Maybe I'll just push the envelope
60 posted on 03/18/2003 4:35:09 PM PST by JesseShurun
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