Posted on 03/08/2003 11:16:06 AM PST by Commander8
Now you are ctaching on.
And when Elizabeth heard the greeting of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit and she exclaimed with a loud cry, "Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb! And why is this granted me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me? For behold, when the voice of your greeting came to my ears, the babe in my womb leaped for joy. 45 And blessed is she who believed that there would be a fulfilment of what was spoken to her from the Lord." (Luke 1:41-46)
In the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God to a city of Galilee named Nazareth, to a virgin betrothed to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary. And he came to her and said, "Hail, O favored one, the Lord is with you!" But she was greatly troubled at the saying, and considered in her mind what sort of greeting this might be. And the angel said to her, "Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God. And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus. He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Most High; and the Lord God will give to him the throne of his father David, and he will reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there will be no end." (Luke 1:26-33)
And Mary said, "My soul magnifies the Lord, and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior, for he has regarded the low estate of his handmaiden. For behold, henceforth all generations will call me blessed; for He who is mighty has done great things for me, and holy is his name. And his mercy is on those who fear him from generation to generation. He has shown strength with his arm, he has scattered the proud in the imagination of their hearts, he has put down the mighty from their thrones, and exalted those of low degree; he has filled the hungry with good things, and the rich he has sent empty away. He has helped his servant Israel, in remembrance of his mercy, as he spoke to our fathers, to Abraham and to his posterity for ever."(Luke1:46-55)
When Jesus uses this term, the meaning is of Venus, of the dawn, the Light coming
When Isaiah uses it, the "shine" has more to do with a reflected light, and is more associated with "show" or boasting
Luk 1:46 And Mary said, My soul doth magnify the Lord, Luk 1:47 And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.
Mary, like all of us ,needed a Saviour
Num 24:17 (KJV) I shall see him, but not now: I shall behold him, but not nigh: there shall come a Star out of Jacob, and a Sceptre shall rise out of Israel, and shall smite the corners of Moab, and destroy all the children of Sheth.
Nu 24:17 (NIV) "I see him, but not now; I behold him, but not near. A star will come out of Jacob; a sceptre will rise out of Israel..."
He says I AM the morning star
the "morning star" is the title of Christ throughout the rest of Scripture. 2Pet 1:19 (NIV) And we have the word of the prophets made more certain, and you will do well to pay attention to it, as to a light shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts.
I'm glad you brought this up again. I forgot to respond to it last night. At the time of this passage, worship of the male God of Israel was spreading and replacing goddess worship among the various cultures. Among these cultures, the main god was considered female and she was responsible for fertility of crops, women, and bounty in life in general. This particular goddess here is likely Inanna. Offerings to her of food and wine, particularly cakes, were made to ensure bountiful harvests. Soon after the people started to worship the God of Israel, the crops failed. The women believed that Inanna was angry with them for rejection of her and returned to their previous religious practices because of the crop failure. This passage relates this. Mary had not even been born yet. This has nothing to do with her.
Israel.
I halfway agree with you here. This works from an allegorical perspective but becomes problematic in the details. Revelation 12 is describing a specific apocalyptic battle. Christ emerged from the Israel of old but then Israel as a nation or as the chosen people specifically rejected Christ. How can they win against Satan in partnership with Christ when they have rejected him as their King?
Second, even if we take Israel to mean the "spiritual community of Christian believers" , the last sentence of this Chapter trips us up there. Enraged at her escape, the dragon went off to make war on the rest of her offspring, on those who keep God's commandments and give witness to Jesus. This is a direct reference to the community of Christian believers so Israel cannot also be the former in that context.
I have previously pointed out, what was prophesied in the Old Testament was fulfilled in the New Testament. The Old Testament Ark of the Covenant was created from the purest of matter to the exact specifications of God in order to hold His written Word. In the New Testament, God chooses a pure and chaste Mary, a vessel filled with grace, to be the container for His Living Word.
In Revelation 11:15-12:17, as the seventh trumpet sounds, a great shout announces the victory of the Lamb. John sees the Ark of the Covenant in heaven and immediately describes a woman clothed with the sun. This woman(Mary) gives birth to a child (Jesus). The dragon wars against the woman and her seed, the followers of Jesus. John identifies the dragon as the ancient serpent indicating that this battle fulfills the prophecy of Genesis 3:15.
In 12:5, Jesus is described as the child "destined to rule all the nations". If Jesus is the King, the Anointed One, then Mary is the Mother of the King. In ancient times, the Queen was not the King's wife, but rather the King's Mother (recall Solomon and Bathsheba). As Mother of the King of kings, Mary is the Queen Mother. In addition, she is also the Mother of the Church and all Christians described as "the rest of her offspring, those who keep God's commandments and give witness to Jesus" (12:17). In Revelation 12:18, the serpent positions himself for further battles against the woman and her followers, an enduring cosmic battle. This indicates an ongoing role for Mary in the Christian struggle.
Yes, RnMom, God will grant his Church many graces and victory through Mary.
Your elevation of an English translation (albeit a good translation which has been in use many years) over the original languages that the Bible was given is a much larger issue. The onus is on you to explain why the Greek and Hebrew are inferior to the King James!
Can't wait for ftD and xzins to respond to this challenge. Doubt that they will honestly address it because if they did, they would have to admit that the KJV is not perfect; a conclusionthat any reasonable person would admit. While I prefer the NIV (footnotes are good because the compilers of the NIV are not so arrogant as to state that there is only one 'best word' in all instances where there is honest disagreement), the NIv is not perfect either.
The KJVO crowd seems to be placing an unwarranted amount of faith in the perfection of the KJV. Their words and accusations are a bit cult-like, and their logical reasoning is not all that different from Mormon justifications for their belief that the BoM is holy scripture. I am certainly not lumping the KJVO adherents with Mormonism, just their use of false premises and conclusions about any version other than the KJV.
I'm not aware that xzins has claimed to be KJV only...(I could be wrong).
I'm not sure why I was pinged to this thread, but I don't have time to be part of the conversation right now. I lost a cousin last night from long term consequences of breast cancer and my 3-year-old is having his tonsils out in the morning.
I'll be back. In the meantime, carry on without me.
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