Posted on 03/03/2003 5:35:48 PM PST by Salvation
Sorry to hear about your misadventure, but your recollection of it had me LOL!
The priests at my church warn against anyone having anything to do with the new church. (Although I say "my church", it's not actually correct. My wife, daughter and I are not yet baptized, but are waiting until Holy Saturday, which I understand is the traditional day for new converts. We have covered almost all of the basics in our catechism classes, and we're looking forward to April 19th.)
Sorry buddy, I didn't create the Mass of All Time. That would be Christ and His disciples. I just follow it, as demanded by all popes prior to John XXIII.
Your "Mass" was concieved by Cardinal Bugnini.
If the choice is between the two, I think it is a pretty easy choice. Why do you attack people for adhering to the 2,000 year history of God's Own Church?
Didn't you read my post? The priest at this N.O. "Mass" made no mention at all of Lent being a time of repentance. It is simply a time "to grow in our personal relationship with Jesus." That's it. That's Lent at the Mass I attended. So...do I listen to him or to my Traditional Priest, who spent the entire sermon last week on repentance and self-denial and the primacy of love for God over love for ourselves (which is the basis of sin)? You are making my argument for me: I should concentrate on repentance and ignore the polyanna nonsense eminating from the crumbling Novus Ordo establishment.
What glorious and delightful news! How is it that you found the traditional Faith on the first try? Tell me more about your church... Is it indult, independent, or SSPX? Just curious.
Thank God for showing you the Faith!
The N.O. is not Catholic. That is a big big problem. This is important at Lent more than ever.
I mean no personal offense. I have great friends who are protestant. I don't hold that against them at all. I respect their different religious views. My point is not that the N.O. is bad or evil. Simply that it is not Catholic. Just like my Methodist friends are not bad or evil, it is just that they are not Catholic. No bigotry here, just an observation.
way too embarassing!
pony
Just as there is a mark or sign of the beast, there is a mark or sign of G-d.
Exodus 13 (KJV)
9 And it shall be for a sign unto thee upon thine hand, and for a memorial between thine eyes, that the LORD's law may be in thy mouth: for with a strong hand hath the LORD brought thee out of Egypt.
Exodus 13
16 And it shall be for a token upon thine hand, and for frontlets between thine eyes: for by strength of hand the LORD brought us forth out of Egypt.
Deuteronomy 6
8 And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thine hand, and they shall be as frontlets between thine eyes.
Deuteronomy 11
18 Therefore shall ye lay up these my words in your heart and in your soul, and bind them for a sign upon your hand, that they may be as frontlets between your eyes.
from the Hebrew
226 'owth oth probably from 225 (in the sense of appearing); a signal (literally or figuratively), as a flag, beacon, monument, omen, prodigy, evidence, etc.:--mark, miracle, (en-)sign, token.
1) sign, signal
a) a distinguishing mark
b) banner
c) remembrance
d) miraculous sign
e) omen
f) warning
2) token, ensign, standard, miracle, proof
from the Hebrew
2903 towphaphah to-faw-faw' from an unused root meaning to go around or bind; a fillet for the forehead:--frontlet.
1) bands, phylacteries, frontlets, marks
Deuteronomy 11
18 Therefore shall ye lay up these my words in your heart and in your soul, and bind them for a sign upon your hand, that they may be as frontlets between your eyes.
19 And ye shall teach them your children, speaking of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.
22 For if ye shall diligently keep all these commandments which I command you, to do them, to love the LORD your God, to walk in all his ways, and to cleave unto him;
(Obedience is the test of true love for G-d. Adam and Eve
disobeyed, and were kicked out of the Garden. Abraham obeyed and it
was counted unto him as righteousness)
26 Behold, I set before you this day a blessing and a curse;
(G-d gives us a choice)
27 A blessing, if ye obey the commandments of the LORD your God, which I command you this day:
28 And a curse, if ye will not obey the commandments of the LORD your God, but turn aside out of the way which I command you this day, to go after other gods, which ye have not known.
The sign of G-d is His Torah, which in Hebrew means instructions and teachings. Those that accept the Torah are marked as those that are true children of G-d.
Now, that we know what YHWH's sign/mark is... just who's mark are you taking?
The Holy Season of Lent -- Fast and Abstinence
Ashes are a mark of faith and a symbol that we use to begin the season of Lent which leads us to Easter.
By wearing Ashes, we recall our baptism, and our welcoming of Jesus into our lives as we prepare ourselves for Easter. During the Ash Wednesday service, we listen to God's word and bless the ashes which are the burnt remains of the palms from Palm Sunday. On Palm Sunday we celebrate the day that Jesus was welcomed into Jerusalem with waving palms. In baptism, we welcomed Jesus as our friend, our guide, and our role model. The ashes which remain from the palms remind us that even though we may have turned away from God and made choices that have broken our friendship, still we are welcomed by God. The reading during the Ash Wednesday liturgy reminds us that God gives us the time and the chance to come back no matter how far we have wandered from the path of God's love: "You can still return to me with all your heart..." (Joel 2:12). The seeds of our faith and love are sheltered beneath the ashes much like a seedling in a forest: after a fire, the ashes may look dark, sad and barren, but the ashen remains of the burnt trees serve as a blanket and a shield for the seeds buried beneath. These seeds will sprout in the spring.
Lent is a reminder to all of us of our baptismal call.
Ash Wednesday is the beginning of Lent, which was originally a forty day retreat spent as time of preparation for adults preparing for baptism. The forty days recalled the time that Jesus spent in the desert preparing for his ministry of love, healing and teaching. As Jesus' disciples, we spend our Lenten retreat preparing for Easter and readying ourselves to follow Jesus' call to love.
Wearing ashes is a sign that we remember God's love and our Baptismal promises and we are returning to the hope and joy of God's call.
Ashes are a sign of repentance, that is turning away from sin and evil-anything that goes against God's love. In the early days of the church, persons who had committed serious sins wore ashes and spent time away from the community as a way to think about and heal the wound of their sin. In the Middle Ages, the tradition changed to include the whole community. This change recognized that all of us can forget God's love and friendship and make choices that turn us in a different direction, away from God. The whole community wears ashes as a reminder of God's call and our choice to follow God's way of love. In the Gospel of Ash Wednesday liturgy, Jesus reminds us that our signs of penance are not for making a big deal of our suffering.
We put on signs of faith as an outward sign of our heart's commitment to grow, to love and share.
The ashes we wear are meaningful when they are linked to prayer and acts of love and service.
Ash Wednesday is important because it begins our journey in Lent toward Easter.
Ashes also symbolize death and mourning.
Jesus turned death upside down by his resurrection. When we wear ashes, we remember the cycle of life and death. We remember our God who created us from the earth. We believe in faith that our lives are changed by God's love and that we will share in Jesus' resurrection. So "ashes are turned to garlands of joy" when we journey from Ash Wednesday to Easter.
As Paul said in his letter to the Romans:
"Yet God raised Jesus to life! God's Spirit now lives in you, and he will raise you to life by his Spirit." (Romans 8:11)
Please cite the scripture saying that we are to have ash markings on our forheads, in the shape of a cross. Thanks. By the way, it seems that it may be more of a 'tradition of men', than a request of YHWH. ;)
1 Kings 18:21 (JPS)
21 And Elijah came near unto all the people, and said: 'How long halt ye between two opinions? if YHWH be God, follow Him; but if Baal, follow him.' And the people answered him not a word.
Now a rephrase...
1 Kings 18:21
21 And Elijah came near unto all the people, and said: 'How long halt ye between two opinions? if YHWH be God, follow Him; but if Jesus, follow him.' And the people answered him not a word.
At some point you will have to make a choice
**Ashes are a sign of repentance, that is turning away from sin and evil-anything that goes against God's love. In the early days of the church, persons who had committed serious sins wore ashes and spent time away from the community as a way to think about and heal the wound of their sin. In the Middle Ages, the tradition changed to include the whole community. This change recognized that all of us can forget God's love and friendship and make choices that turn us in a different direction, away from God. The whole community wears ashes as a reminder of God's call and our choice to follow God's way of love.**
So, I don't think you are saying that you are sinless, I just think that you are saying you don't agree with this Tradition.
Can we agree to disagree here?
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