Posted on 02/08/2003 7:43:01 AM PST by Matchett-PI
[1] The God-centered one where God is sovereign.
[2] The man-centered one where man is sovereign.
Biblical Christians (like Augustine, Luther and Calvin) believe God when he says fallen man is spiritually DEAD.
Professing Christians, (like Pelagius, Arminius, Wesley) DON'T believe God when he says fallen man is spiritually DEAD.
Eve didn't believe God when he told her she would DIE.
And the IDENTIFYING FACTOR that marks the false religion she started, is that same refusal to believe God when he says fallen man is spiritually DEAD.
Flagged to regular posters
Sometimes, perhaps. But as one actively involved in an evangelistic movement, I can attest that there is a fair number of Calvinists and semi-Calvinists who recognize at least Prevenient Grace.
As I look back on my own salvation experience, I can see the progression as it played out in my own heart. I can name the exact time and place where my heart was opened, and the event that opened it. Of all things, speaking to an exceptionally good rock guitarist after a concert, wanting to know how he had developed such an amazing talent. His one-word reply: Jesus. My life was never the same after that moment. You might have heard of this fellow, his name is Phil Keaggy, and he is even now a good friend of mine.
While this may be taught in some Arminian churches (none that I've ever attended), the above statement is a misrepresentation of the gospel of Free Grace as taught by John Wesley:
First. It is free in all to whom it is given. It does not depend on any power or merit in man; no, not in any degree, neither in whole, nor in part. It does not in anywise depend either on the good works or righteousness of the receiver; not on anything he has done, or anything he is. It does not depend on his endeavors. It does not depend on his good tempers, or good desires, or good purposes and intentions; for all these flow from the free grace of God; they are the streams only, not the fountain. They are the fruits of free grace, and not the root. They are not the cause, but the effects of it. Whatsoever good is in man, or is done by man, God is the author and doer of it. Thus is his grace free in all; that is, no way depending on any power or merit in man, but on God alone, who freely gave us his own Son, and "with him freely giveth us all things.
John Wesley: Free Grace
No, we have neither proven freewill nor disproved election ... since it is impossible to do either.
We would probably all save ourselves a lot of time and grief if we remembered that in our discussions here.
But Reisinger is talking about spiritually mature Christians.
Notice again what Reisinger wrote:
"I am NOT talking about, or trying to defend, "Calvinists" since they come in a hundred 'varieties. ...If you know anyone that denies the above facts, then that person, regardless of what he labels himself, is denying the clear message of the Bible."
Thanks for the article and the link. That site is a wealth of other links, like a link to Luther's The Bondage of the Will, that you can't find in any so-called Christian Book store any more.
Best be careful before others start calling you a Calvinist Wacko (sob!!)
Regards,
CDL
I thought it was an important article because it clearly shows the difference between Biblical Christianity, Hyper-Calvinism, and Arminianism.
The name Phil Keaggy does sound familiar. If I heard any of his music I would know. I'm a big fan of Eric Clapton's music (but not him, personally).
(Greek soteria; Hebrew yeshu'ah).
Salvation has in Scriptural language the general meaning of liberation from straitened circumstances or from other evils, and of a translation into a state of freedom and security (I Kings, xi, 13; xiv, 45; II Kings, xxiii, 10; IV Kings, xiii, 17). At times it expresses God's help against Israel's enemies, at other times, the Divine blessing bestowed on the produce of the soil (Is., xlv, 8). As sin is the greatest evil, being the root and source of all evil, Sacred Scripture uses the word "salvation" mainly in the sense of liberation of the human race or of individual man from sin and its consequences. We shall first consider the salvation of the human race, and then salvation as it is verified in the individual man.
II. INDIVIDUAL SALVATION
The Council of Trent describes the process of salvation from sin in the case of an adult with great minuteness (Sess. VI, v-vi).
It begins with the grace of God which touches a sinner's heart, and calls him to repentance. This grace cannot be merited; it proceeds solely from the love and mercy of God. Man may receive or reject this inspiration of God, he may turn to God or remain in sin. Grace does not constrain man's free will.
Thus assisted the sinner is disposed for salvation from sin; he believes in the revelation and promises of God, he fears God's justice, hopes in his mercy, trusts that God will be merciful to him for Christ's sake, begins to love God as the source of all justice, hates and detests his sins.
This disposition is followed by justification itself, which consists not in the mere remission of sins, but in the sanctification and renewal of the inner man by the voluntary reception of God's grace and gifts, whence a man becomes just instead of unjust, a friend instead of a foe and so an heir according to hope of eternal life. This change happens either by reason of a perfect act of charity elicited by a well disposed sinner or by virtue of the Sacrament either of Baptism or of Penance according to the condition of the respective subject laden with sin. The Council further indicates the causes of this change. By the merit of the Most Holy Passion through the Holy Spirit, the charity of God is shed abroad in the hearts of those who are justified.
Calvinists are consistant in never denying mans free will...we just think that man will never" will "to have Jesus as Savior and LORD without a new heart..
It is not a matter of salvation...but I would also not call it a small matter because it has to do with the sovereignity of God...
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