Rome's Chief Exorcist Warns Parents Against Harry Potter

Great list......

**4) Blood sacrifices;[22] **

I was in a classroom one day when the teacher reading the books read of the "sacred" blue blood of a unicorn.

I was so angry that I had to leave the room to keep from screaming at the teacher.

The only sacred blood to me is that of Jesus Christ, shed for us on the Cross.

Worse, if you drink the blood of the unicorn you will almost die and only have a small drop of life in you. That's something I read from an article by a Catholic author that was featured on Moments of Truth Live. I can't find the article now, but it was eye-opening.

Whoa -- just when you think you've heard it all!

You can say that again!!!! More Signs of the Times. I think I would exit stage right from that school.

I just read this in the NY Post and Star Ledger. So, who is right?

http://www.nypost.com/news/worldnews/68282.htm

http://www.nj.com/search/index.ssf?/base/news-6/104434399547750.xml?starledger

HARRY POTTER IS OK WITH THE PONTIFF

February 4, 2003 -- VATICAN CITY - Harry Potter fans, relax. The Vatican says the kid is all right.
The question of whether J.K. Rowling's books and the films on the boy wizard have a positive influence came up at a news conference yesterday, as the Vatican presented a document on "New Age" spirituality, which contains elements of the occult.

"I don't think that any of us grew up without the imaginary world of fairies, magicians, angels and witches," said Father Peter Fleetwood, a Vatican official who worked on the document.

"They are not bad or a banner for anti-Christian ideology.

"They help children understand the difference between good and evil," he said in response to a reporter's question.

The fifth book in the boy-magician series, "Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix," is sure to be an instant best seller after its June publication date.

Reuters

http://www.nj.com/search/index.ssf?/base/news-6/104434398947750.xml?starledger

Vatican bends a bit to yoga and some 'New Age' practices

But it warns that spiritual quest cannot replace Christian religion

Tuesday, February 04, 2003

BY NICOLE WINFIELD
Associated Press

VATICAN CITY -- The Vatican weighed in yesterday on feng shui, crystals and the dawning of the Age of Aquarius in a new document designed to address whether you can still be a good Christian while taking yoga class.

"A Christian Reflection on the 'New Age'" doesn't give many absolute answers. But while saying some positive things about the New Age movement, it warns that New Agers' quest for spirituality and inner peace can't take the place of true Christian religion.

And it highlights some core differences between New Age and Christian thought, particularly regarding the concepts of God, Jesus and sin.

While New Agers are waiting for an era when they are "totally in command of the cosmic laws of nature ... Christians are in a constant state of vigilance, ready for the last days when Christ will come again; their New Age began 2,000 years ago, with Christ," the document said.

The Vatican said the preliminary document was the result of requests by bishops for guidance on determining whether practices embraced by New Agers, including yoga, meditation and healing by crystals, were compatible with Christianity.

The 90-page booklet, which includes a glossary defining terms like "channeling," "karma," and "reincarnation," urges caution.

Monsignor Michael Fitzgerald, president of the Pontifical Council for Interreligious Dialogue, told a news conference many aspects of the New Age movement were viewed positively by the Church, such as the importance it places on protecting the environment.

"But if one is brought to this by ascribing 'divineness' to the land, that's another thing," he said. "Music that relaxes you is good. But if this music empties prayer and prayer turns into just listening to music and falling asleep, it's no longer prayer."

The document, which was six years in the making, traces the history of the New Age phenomenon and notes the importance of the 1969 Woodstock festival and the musical "Hair."

It defines "Age of Aquarius" as the astrological age that New Agers believe will usher in an era of harmony, justice and peace, following the current "Age of Pisces," which has been marked by wars and conflicts. The Vatican document is silent on when the "Age of Aquarius" begins.

It lists feng shui, the ancient Chinese art of placing things to ensure a harmonious energy flow, as an "occult" New Age practice that emphasizes "being in tune with nature or the cosmos."

The document stresses that much of the New Age phenomenon is driven by marketing books, therapies and crystals, and it notes some consider New Age just a label "for a product created by the application of marketing principles to a religious phenomenon."

The Vatican didn't say why the book was coming out now -- more than 30 years after the New Age movement took hold in the United States and elsewhere -- although it is current enough to acknowledge that yoga and crystals are enormously popular these days.

The booklet attributes such popularity, particularly in the Western world, to a "spiritual hunger of contemporary men and women" unsatisfied with existing religion, political institutions or science.

It offers some practical steps for priests to follow, saying the best way to counter the search for New Age remedies was to highlight the "riches of the Christian spiritual heritage."

It encourages dialogue with New Agers but stresses that their credentials must be checked. And it urges caution with groups that host prayer meetings or initiation ceremonies, saying they may lure people into a form of false worship.

The booklet was prepared by Fitzgerald's council and the Pontifical Council for Culture, with help from the Vatican's orthodoxy watchdog, the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith.

It is not considered to be the Vatican's final word on the matter. A definitive document will be published once the Vatican receives feedback from dioceses on the provisional one issued yesterday.

"...president of the International Association of Exorcists..."

Every time I read this title, I get this mental image of a priest with white collar, leisurely laid back in a large chair reading the association's periodical,...which must be entitled something like "Exorcism Today".... just can't shake that mental picture. ;^)

DM, this stuff is everywhere. I have friends and family with kids all over the state - and some out of state. You cannot escape it unless you homeschool your kid until they go to college at which time they will be exposed to that and worse.

I thank God everyday that my daughter is appalled at the things I mentioned.

So here's this vicious anti-Christian polluting the minds of children, lauded by the decadent cultural elite, and we're reading tea leaves over Harry Potter? We should not be wasting our time over Rowling while a true nut like Pullman gets a pass.

Remember the name, folks: Philip Pullman. You've been warned.

Thank you. When I first heard about the popularity of the Harry Potter books, I went to Amazon and began reading the reviews from children. I then clicked on "people who bought this book also liked..." Pullman was one of the most common "hits."

Folks, go to Amazon yourself and read the synopses of his books, and then click on "people who liked this book also liked..." and then read those synopses.

Potter is just the tip of the witchcraft iceberg. But don't take my word for it. Take a walk through the fantasy/sci-fi aisle at Barnes and Noble and read the dust jackets. 9 out of 10 books deal with witchcraft, and most of them make Harry Potter look tame, although Potter is dangerous enough in itself.

Anyone even slightly familiar with the subject knows that Rowling has a sophisticated knowledge of the occult.

She does. The author of a book on fortune-telling in one of her books is named "Vablatsky," an obvious anagram of the name "Blavatsky" the famous founder of the Theosophical Society. ("Unfogging the Future," mentioned on p. 45 of the Prisoner of Azkaban)

... just can't shake that mental picture. ;^)

An audio interview with Fr. Lebar, the exorcist for the archdiocese of NY.

>>If anyone has suggestions on books for pre-teens, pass them along<<

You can pick up your missing Trixie Beldens on ebay. Also, try out Judy Boltons, by Margaret Sutton - currently they are only available on ebay, but they're about to be reprinted.

An excellent girls' series that has just been reprinted is the Beany Malone series by Lenora Mattingly Weber.The publisher, http://www.imagecascade.com/, is reprinting many well-loved & wholesome children's books - Sally Watsons are good too. I wish I'd known those were being reprinted - a few months ago, hardcovers were going for up to $600 on the web, and I've got three. The Chip Hilton series, for boys, has been republished by a Christian press, with a Christian writer revising the books to increase the religious tone. Those are available at Borders; the Beany Malones are available at the website - the Malone family is Catholic, with a strong faith.

I disagree on Harry Potter - and until I read the books for myself, I leaned toward your point of view. Remember the Goosebumps & Christopher Pike crazes? THOSE were dangerous books - while they were fictional, they were NOT fantasy, as is Harry Potter.

Thanks for the information on the books ... when summer comes, I want to be prepared with reading material!

OK, I can see that I am going to have to spell everything out...

I said:

Amazing how much people who haven't read the books know about them....

You said:

Leading with false ad hominem arguments is always a highly recommended strategy for bringing your opponent around to your point of view.

I respond: My previous post was addressed to the entire group of people reading this thread, which is why I replied to the original poster rather than to someone further down. I did not mean to imply that you personally had not read the books; I was rather drawing attention to the people on this thread who proclaimed that they hadn't read the books yet still attacked them. I apologize that I was so unclear about this that you took it personally. In any case, one should be able make remarks like this without being accused of "ad hominem" argument, since "ad hominem" argument is only bad when it refers to IRRELEVANT characteristics of the proponent of the opposing view, while here the only thing I even know about the person I am referring to is that they have said they haven't read the books, which is relevant.

I said:

The Harry Potter books are FANTASY. Magic in them has no religious significance, it plays the same role that made-up science and technology does in Science Fiction.

You said:

How do you correlate this unsubstantiated assertion against all the items detailed in post #8 ?

I respond: post #8 is so misleading that it deserves a separate, detailed point-by-point response. I won't have time to get to that until later today, but watch for it.

I said:

The ignoramuses who claim the Potter books are Satanic tools are afraid that children will actually go out and do real magic after reading these books.

You said:

Nothing like a few insults to spice up your argument. Meanwhile, the reality of evil is being denied at a time when it's influence is so very tangible all around us. Check out some information on Fr. Gabriel Amorth and his work as the chief exorcist of Rome before you call people "ignoramuses."

I respond: You are failing to appreciate the distinction I made between magic-as-an-impersonal-technology and magic-as-invocation-of-the-agency-of-supernatural-beings. There is no denial of the reality of evil in the Potter books -- the evil characters are very explicitly evil, and the hero of the book is very clearly obliged to reject them and their works. The "ignoramuses" I am referring to are the ones who are IMPORTING to the fantasy world of the books, where magic-as-an-impersonal-technology exists, the ASSUMPTION, which applies to the REAL world, that "magic-as-an-impersonal-technology does not exist and THEREFORE any real 'magic' must involve the immoral invocation-of-the-agency-of-supernatural-beings". That assumption is FALSE in the books.

Notice the extra logical step here. Most of the Potter critics believe the statement "Real 'magic' involves the immoral invocation-of-the-agency-of-supernatural-beings". What they have overlooked is that that statement is not "necessarily true", i.e. not "true in every possible world". Rather, its truth is DEPENDENT on the contingent fact "magic-as-an-impersonal-technology does not exist". This contingent fact does NOT apply in Rowling's literary fantasy world, and so the previous statement is not a justified assumption.

Here's a good place to find a decent summer reading list:

http://www.greatbooksacademy.org

I wrote:

"Dark magic" is magic which is generally used for evil... Good wizards must learn the same principles and techniques when studying "Defense against the Dark Arts", but do so from a morally correct orientation.

You wrote:

Based on his decades of experience dealing with demonic influence and possession on a daily basis, Fr. Gabriel Amorth opts to disagree with your position:

"He noted that the books attempt to make a false distinction between black and white magic, when in fact, the distinction "does not exist, because magic is always a turn to the devil."

Do you have some comparable experience upon which you base your opinion?

I respond:

Father Amorth clearly makes the mistake my previous reply describes. He says "Magic is always a turn to the devil". Here he is importing into the literary fantasy world an assumption based on his work in the real world. He doesn't seem to be able to conceive of a universe in which magic can be an impersonal technology.

Now I will admit that J.K. Rowling probably believes that in the REAL world, magic works NEITHER as an impersonal technology NOR as the invocation of supernatural spirits. If you believe that it is possible to magically invoke supernatural spirits, then you might be more careful about treating "magic" sympathetically; but the magic they teach at Hogwarts in the Potter books is always of the impersonal technological kind -- no supernatural beings are summoned, and the spells follow quasi-scientific laws and constraints.

Do I think that it is possible that someone who reads the Potter books might become a Satanist? Not if they ONLY read the Potter books. Of course it is possible to read OTHER, dangerous books about something going by the name of "magic" which involves invocation-of-supernatural-spirits, but that is not what Rowling writes and she shouldn't be blamed. Her books have a normal moral orientation, and magic in them is just a tool that can be used for good or evil, as it is in Tolkien's books (Gandalf was a good wizard, Saruman was a bad one) and C.S. Lewis's Narnia books (Coriakin was a good wizard, Andrew Ketterley was a bad one).

In your opinion, are Tolken's and Lewis's books also immoral because they do not treat all magic as inherently evil?

I recommend the children's books from TAN. My children just LOVE them. They are exciting, well-written, and very Catholic. Your children will be changed for the better after reading these books.

1. Tom Playfair series of 3 boys' books. These are in the mold of Hardy Boys adventures (although written much earlier) set in a Catholic boys' boarding school. My kids wish there were more than 3 books in the series.

2. Lives of the saints by Mary Fabian Windeatt. These stories really make the saints come alive for children. Kids love reading them, and they receive an education in the faith at the same time.

Here's a link to TAN:
http://www.tanbooks.com/books/tomp1755.htm

Also available are complete sets of all 3 Tom Playfair books and all 20 Mary Windeatt books. These sets aren't listed on the website, but you can order them if you call the phone number.

Not available from TAN, but also excellent are the series from Hilda van Stockum. They are all wonderful books that children love, with a Catholic culture that is not sacharine. Here is an Amazon link to "The Winged Watchman," perhaps her most famous book:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0374384487/qid=1044463063/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_1/002-6903088-1587223?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

I'M OK!

Are you SURE???

I have been exposed to the same viruses as you have, such as the Jebbies (and Rembert Weakland.)

Have made it clear to my children that witchcraft is a product of Satan.

There are quite a few folks, both in the chattering classes and on the 'conservative' side, who think that children are as dumb as boxes of rocks. EG: "Oh, the children cannot POSSIBLY understand Latin/the Mass/ geometry/ etc."

They insult children in general, and my kids in particular.

Make sure your kids know which way is North, or which way is Rome--and they will generally be just fine.

This is so amazing. I haven't read the books, my children are grown now, but I have heard that the kind of stuff you list above is in these books, which I believe is appalling and wrong for young readers, or anyone for that matter, but then I hear people who I thought :) have good moral sense say there is nothing wrong with the books, and people are making mountains out of mole hills. I am definitly going to have to read at least one. Which is the first?, (see how behind the times I am:). I ride alot with a school teacher, and she swears they are absolutly wonderful, but then her and I do not discuss public schools, and religion very much, we are miles apart.

Becky

HARRY POTTER IS OK WITH THE PONTIFF

Do you believe that the Pontiff has read the books for himself?

Becky

Do you believe that the Pontiff has read the books for himself?>>>>

Nope, probably more bad advice from his subordinates.

I know who to call now. Thanks for the laugh.