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To: american colleen
Don't forget the split between Eastern Orthodox and the Roman Church some 1600 years ago, they obviously had some difficulties with the way the "main church" was going.

Plus, one could look at Judaism and say that it had 3500 years of tradition behind it, there-fore all Christian religions(including Catholicism) are there-fore of suspect heritage. Time does not ensure maturity or purity. New wine does not get poured into old wine sacks. Christ declared himself, as the temple that would be torn down in three days then rebuilt, signifying his coming death and resurrection. It is the Spirit of God, blowing as it wills, that empowers his people to spread the Word of God declaring Salvation to the lost and Healing to the nations. If he could raise up stones to be sons of Abraham, he can raise up new denominations to spread his truth when the old instituions have lost their savor and have allowed their priests to savage their flocks, financially and sexually. The REAL CHURCH is spread trans- temporally across time and space, existing from Adam thru Seth, thru Noah, thru Abraham,thru David, thru Christ and all those whose Faith in God was imputed to them as Righteousness, to those who put their trust in the Lamb, right down to the 6 year old girl who was my daughter, who trusted in Jesus her Saviour("Jesus came into my I AM place", she stated after-ward!) It not about buildings, or pretended apostolic successions,or denominations Protestant or Catholic! It is about a whole company of believers, past, present, future...a whole host of "living stones" as we are called, that form his TRUE CHURCH; Spirit empowered so that even the Gates Of Hell shall not prevail against us. It is about GOD IN FLESH, who shall one day rule all nations with a Rod of Iron, even now does he do so! The Catholic church has lost its first love, concerning itself with trappings of religion, and forms, and strange ideas about Mary's deification and for-ever virginhood, and the elevation of certain persons as venerated Saints. It has lost its moral purity by refusing to deal with its sexually corrupt priests and feminist nuns. The mainline Protestant churches have refused to deal with the immoral sin in their midsts as well. Newer, more evangelical churches are being Spirit nurtured to continue spreading the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and many who thirst for God are leaving the older protestant and Catholic(many messianic Jews have also left Judaism as well)churches for these newer churches(some large, some small.

Christ is not the for-ever dying God that we often see on wooden crucifixes in our churches,(I'm not criticising the symbol) but our risen ever lasting Lord(I would love to see images of the empty tomb with the crucifix translucently super-imposed!)....This is the truth that the world is in dying need of, and this is the truth that Satan is constantly trying to bury, he does so best by using the trappings..and "trap" of religion.

I wonder if Christ would look at many of our local Protestant and Catholic bodies, and say to us what he said to the Jewish temple fathers..."you have taken away the keys of knowledge so that those who listen to you are thrice more damned than your-selves!"
73 posted on 01/16/2003 9:30:55 AM PST by mdmathis6
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To: mdmathis6
Don't forget the split between Eastern Orthodox and the Roman Church some 1600 years ago, they obviously had some difficulties with the way the "main church" was going.

That would be about 900 years ago. Although there are many small reasons why the Church split, the big one was over the "filioque" which led to some of the Eastern Churches rejection of the office of Peter and its meaning as understood for 1100 years. Also the Eastern Churches were the ones were most of the heresy was spread due to their being much more nationalistic than the Western Churches. FYI, both churches have essencially the same doctrines and dogma, particularly the belief in the Real Presence which does unite us.

I always look at Catholicism as the maturation of Judaism. A logical fulfilment of Judaism, if you will.

Newer, more evangelical churches are being Spirit nurtured to continue spreading the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and many who thirst for God are leaving the older protestant and Catholic(many messianic Jews have also left Judaism as well)churches for these newer churches(some large, some small.

I'll just take few words of the last paragraph of your post here as it seems to sum up the idea of the entire paragraph.
First off, error has been man's curse since the beginning of creation, however, He did hand the keys to Peter and promised to be with us until the end... hence, the 2,000 years of continuing Catholicism.

You seem to be saying that people are searching for purity in their choice of where they decide to worship. That is impossible, given that men are involved. When you (as a non-Catholic) disagree with the preacher in your church, you seek out another more in line with what you believe is truth. Thus you have purity in line with your standards until you decide otherwise and move on.

Of course belief in Him is not about buildings or institutions, but that is the best our hands can offer him utilizing the gifts he has given us. Are you suggesting that we worship him individually in our own yards? Certainly that is fine, but he did establish one Church and the earliest Christians gathered together in buildings. Read early Church history to find out what the was the central thing they did together - they received the Eucharist because they believed His words when He said "This is my body." They believed in the real presence.

You seem to judge Catholicism and the different Protestant denominations according to men and not what they teach. That is your mistake. Do you believe in the use of birth control? Every single Christian church, Catholic and Protestant, rejected birth control until 1930. Only the Catholic Church has continued the belief that it is wrong. Were all those churches wrong until 1930 when they suddenly found the truth that it is OK to thwart God's will and limit the number of children to suit their wants?

One other thing: you say "New wine does not get poured into old wine sacks." -- when you understand this fully, you will understand the Virgin Mary and her place as "Theotokos" as found in Catholicism.

75 posted on 01/16/2003 10:06:48 AM PST by american colleen (Wish I could write well.)
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To: mdmathis6
Concur, great post. I believe it.
97 posted on 01/16/2003 8:46:38 PM PST by Cvengr (John 3:17...doesn't begin with 'except')
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