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To: mdmathis6
Don't forget the split between Eastern Orthodox and the Roman Church some 1600 years ago, they obviously had some difficulties with the way the "main church" was going.

That would be about 900 years ago. Although there are many small reasons why the Church split, the big one was over the "filioque" which led to some of the Eastern Churches rejection of the office of Peter and its meaning as understood for 1100 years. Also the Eastern Churches were the ones were most of the heresy was spread due to their being much more nationalistic than the Western Churches. FYI, both churches have essencially the same doctrines and dogma, particularly the belief in the Real Presence which does unite us.

I always look at Catholicism as the maturation of Judaism. A logical fulfilment of Judaism, if you will.

Newer, more evangelical churches are being Spirit nurtured to continue spreading the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and many who thirst for God are leaving the older protestant and Catholic(many messianic Jews have also left Judaism as well)churches for these newer churches(some large, some small.

I'll just take few words of the last paragraph of your post here as it seems to sum up the idea of the entire paragraph.
First off, error has been man's curse since the beginning of creation, however, He did hand the keys to Peter and promised to be with us until the end... hence, the 2,000 years of continuing Catholicism.

You seem to be saying that people are searching for purity in their choice of where they decide to worship. That is impossible, given that men are involved. When you (as a non-Catholic) disagree with the preacher in your church, you seek out another more in line with what you believe is truth. Thus you have purity in line with your standards until you decide otherwise and move on.

Of course belief in Him is not about buildings or institutions, but that is the best our hands can offer him utilizing the gifts he has given us. Are you suggesting that we worship him individually in our own yards? Certainly that is fine, but he did establish one Church and the earliest Christians gathered together in buildings. Read early Church history to find out what the was the central thing they did together - they received the Eucharist because they believed His words when He said "This is my body." They believed in the real presence.

You seem to judge Catholicism and the different Protestant denominations according to men and not what they teach. That is your mistake. Do you believe in the use of birth control? Every single Christian church, Catholic and Protestant, rejected birth control until 1930. Only the Catholic Church has continued the belief that it is wrong. Were all those churches wrong until 1930 when they suddenly found the truth that it is OK to thwart God's will and limit the number of children to suit their wants?

One other thing: you say "New wine does not get poured into old wine sacks." -- when you understand this fully, you will understand the Virgin Mary and her place as "Theotokos" as found in Catholicism.

75 posted on 01/16/2003 10:06:48 AM PST by american colleen (Wish I could write well.)
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To: american colleen
Churches fall into error when they lose their first love, and lose track of track of their original commission, which was to teach the good news of Christ crucified and resurrected for our sins. That is the primacy of the mission of the church, to make disciples of Christ from all nations. That is the one mission that Satan always tries to turn the church from.

And it was the arguement over the Apostolic succession that the Orthodox split with Rome over. See my post 111. I don't know that heresies were the particular province of the Orthodox churches, the heretics themselves rejected all of the accepted doctrines of the day, Roman or Orthodox.

As for Mary, she was a simple woman, a kinsman of David, thru the lineage of Nathan("as was supposed", as Luke states,"thru Joseph"...Matthew gives another lineage thru Joseph). She refers to Jesus in her womb as "the lord of HER Salvation", there-fore self admitting her sinful status. Mark chapter 6 refers to brothers and sisters of Jesus, so she was not the for-ever virgin...but so what, she is still worth remembering.

As for "new wine"...it refers to the ripening power of the Holy Spirit in individual's lives...the inner man must be made anew and the institutions that God raises up are made to be able to handle the power of the Spirit. New wine will break open old wine-sacks as it ferments because they have LOST THEIR ELASTICITY! So will individuals and CHURCH INSTITUTIONS if they are not made anew! I suspect that is what happened with the coming of the Reformation, and the arise of the new Protestantism, God began pouring out his Spirit to break up the moribund and corrupt Church that was preventing his message of Salvation from going out into the world and was locking people up into a new kind of Pharisaical temple worship, where people lived under condemnation of the Law and not under grace! That which would not be renewed was broken apart and shattered.
God is concerned with building up his church and setting up a witness for him-self in every nation before Christ's return...a church drawn from believers of EVERY DENOMINATION! A church that exists beyond space and time....or Rome!
113 posted on 01/17/2003 3:31:31 AM PST by mdmathis6
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