Posted on 01/03/2003 12:36:46 PM PST by sola gracia
Amen! - And if he doesn't preach against gambling, then he has made himself one with the "principalities and powers" against which we do daily battle.
One tax and one tax only to pay for everything..............
14 posted on 01/03/2003 4:33 PM MST by xzins
I'm not sure how Piper would view the following but
I personally object to tithing at the synagogue of Satan.
I personally object tithing five-fold to support the church of the Evil-One,
Karl Marx and the other collectivists supporting their and others sins.
Romans 1:32 Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who
do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do
these very things but also approve of those who practise them.
chuck <truth@YeshuaHaMashiach>
I don't follow your reasoning here. It almost sounds to me like you advocate taxing lower income class workers more, in the belief that it will somehow give them an equal voice in government. Is that what you're saying? If so, I cannot agree. Taxation alone does not guarantee anyone a "voice" in government. All it does is bring a certain level of oppression on the ones who must pay.
Personally, I think a flat tax on income, with the first $20,000 exempted, would be a workable solution. The people making less than $20,000 would be able to live better, and conceivably would be less likely to need benefits supplied by the government with tax dollars. Plus, everyone gets that exemption from poorest to richest. Everyone pays tax only on the earnings over $20K. That does not rob anyone of a voice, it is a practical way to ease poverty for those who need the help most.
I doubt that the IRS would go quietly into that good night...too much at stake for them. The sad thing is, I don't know that there is any workable system that would provide the revenue the government DOES need to fulfill its primary role, and the beauracracy that has arisen around all the non-essential government will not just disappear. The number of people who would be unemployed if the beauracracy were dismantled is enormous. It would cause an economic crisis of staggering impact. The thing is, in oder to make room in the economy for all those displaced workers, we would also have to close our borders, deport all Illegals, and revoke all work visas and deport those people. The bright side is that without all the beaurocratic overhead, taxes, and onerous regulations, business would see an immediate spike in profitability, and that could make room for many of the unemployed, increase production, and accelerate growth.
In short, I don't believe there is any politician, let alone a majority of the current occupants of the halls of power, that has the political will and fortitude to conduct what would be a major overhaul of government. Not gonna happen. I think that the Flat Tax is the most viable solution, structured as I previously outlined it. It must apply to everyone, no exceptions, no loopholes, no exemptions. Money earned or received from any source should be taxed with the Flat Tax. I would, however, exempt the principle on any investment made with after-tax income, and tax only the increase, but that increase is counted as part of the total receipts for the year, not separately. If the investment lost money, too bad, sucks to be you, you can't deduct the loss from taxable income. The idea is to eliminate the hiding of income through counting losses against the income, or against the tax on the income. Some would whine that such a plan would discourage investments, but I say no, it will only discourage BAD investments, and investments made with the express purpose of avoiding taxes. It keeps things honest, and income is income, loss is loss, and the two don't cross over.
Christ said this when Caesar was the emperor. The society did not support liberty and freedom.
You did what you were told to do or else.
Two hundred and twenty-five years ago our government was formed as a Republic based on G-d's Law.
It was the first and is today the only Christian Nation. Today you are one of the leaders of this government.
You are responsible for all laws passed in this nation, you are responsible for where the money is spent.
Matthew 28:19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptising them
in [Or into; see Acts 8:16; 19:5; Rom. 6:3; 1 Cor. 1:13; 10:2
and Gal. 3:27.] the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
Matthew 28:20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded
you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”
chuck <truth@YeshuaHaMashiach>
Firstly, a nation cannot be Christian, only individuals can. Jesus did not die for nations, He died and was raised again for individuals. A nation can be a nation COMPOSED of Christians, and in that sense be a "Christian Nation", but not in an absolute sense, which is what you seem to be suggesting.
I am not personally responsible for all laws passed and enacted, nor am I personally responsible for how the money is spent. If you can find my signature on any law passed by Congress, or on any check issued by the government for spending on anything, then you might have a case. Your argument is preposterous. I am not a leader of this government. I have a voice in it through my vote, but so do approximately 300 million other people. You misunderstand the idea of representative government, and especially of republican respresentative government.
My relationship to the current government today is very much the same as a person's relationship to the government of Rome in Jesus' day. I am subject to the authorities and laws, the same as a Roman citizen, with the exception that I do have a vote, where they didn't. That power to vote does not endow me with responsibility for every action of the government, unless you are also going to assess my responsibility with the way I voted, or whom I voted for. Even then, I am responsible for my own sins, not the sins of another, and that also applies to actions.
Your reasoning is faulty, your conclusion preposterous.
The principle is valid, nonetheless. It does not apply any less or differently to America than it did to Rome.
If this is all you know of Marx, I would encourage you to at least read the Communist Manifesto.
You will see that it is the platform of the Democrat Party.
Abolition of the family! Even the most radical flare up at this infamous proposal of the Communists
But, you say, we destroy the most hallowed of relations, when we replace home education by social.
And your education! Is not that also social, and determined by the social conditions under which you educate, by the intervention direct or indirect, of society, by means of schools, etc.? The Communists have not intended the intervention of society in education; they do but seek to alter the character of that intervention, and to rescue education from the influence of the ruling class.Communists would introduce community of women
The charges against communism made from a religious, a philosophical and, generally, from an ideological standpoint, are not deserving of serious examination.
"There are, besides, eternal truths, such as Freedom, Justice, etc., that are common to all states of society. But communism abolishes eternal truths, it abolishes all religion, and all morality, instead of constituting them on a new basis; it therefore acts in contradiction to all past historical experience."
Nevertheless, in most advanced countries, the following will be pretty generally applicable.
1. Abolition of property in land and application of all rents of land to public purposes.
2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.
3. Abolition of all rights of inheritance.
4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels.
5. Centralization of credit in the banks of the state, by means of a national bank with state capital and an exclusive monopoly.
6. Centralization of the means of communication and transport in the hands of the state.
7. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the state; the bringing into cultivation of waste lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan.
8. Equal obligation of all to work. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture.
9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries; gradual abolition of all the distinction between town and country by a more equable distribution of the populace over the country.
10. Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children's factory labor in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production, etc.Nothing is easier than to give Christian asceticism a socialist tinge. Has not Christianity declaimed against private property, against marriage, against the state? Has it not preached in the place of these, charity and poverty, celibacy and mortification of the flesh, monastic life and Mother Church? Christian socialism is but the holy water with which the priest consecrates the heart-burnings of the aristocrat.
from Manifesto of the Communist Party
Tehillim (Psalm) 119:105 Your Word is a lamp to my feet and a light for my path.
chuck <truth@YeshuaHaMashiach>
nf>Firstly, a nation cannot be Christian, only individuals can. Jesus did not die for nations, He died and was raised again for individuals. A nation can be a nation COMPOSED of Christians, and in that sense be a "Christian Nation", but not in an absolute sense, which is what you seem to be suggesting.
I am not personally responsible for all laws passed and enacted, nor am I personally responsible for how the money is spent. If you can find my signature on any law passed by Congress, or on any check issued by the government for spending on anything, then you might have a case. Your argument is preposterous. I am not a leader of this government. I have a voice in it through my vote, but so do approximately 300 million other people. You misunderstand the idea of representative government, and especially of republican respresentative(sic) government.
My relationship to the current government today is very much the same as a person's relationship to the government of Rome in Jesus' day. I am subject to the authorities and laws, the same as a Roman citizen, with the exception that I do have a vote, where they didn't. That power to vote does not endow me with responsibility for every action of the government, unless you are also going to assess my responsibility with the way I voted, or whom I voted for. Even then, I am responsible for my own sins, not the sins of another, and that also applies to actions.
Your reasoning is faulty, your conclusion preposterous.
31 posted on 01/05/2003 10:13 AM MST by nobdysfool
I'm afraid you are ignorant of the history of these United States of America.
Titus 3:5 He saved us,
not because of righteous things we had done,
but because of his mercy.
He saved us through the washing of rebirth
and
renewal by the Holy Spirit,
chuck <truth@YeshuaHaMashiach>
I am much more knowledgeable about it than you think. Now how about you backing up your position with some sound reasoning? So far you haven't.
Titus 3:1 Remind the people to be subject to rulers and authorities, to
be obedient, to be ready to do whatever is good,
Titus 3:2 to slander no-one, to be peaceable and considerate, and to
show true humility towards all men.
Titus 3:3 At one time we too were foolish, disobedient, deceived and
enslaved by all kinds of passions and pleasures. We lived in
malice and envy, being hated and hating one another.
Titus 3:4 But when the kindness and love of God our Saviour appeared,
Titus 3:5 he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but
because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of
rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit,
Titus 3:6 whom he poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ our Saviour,
Titus 3:7 so that, having been justified by his grace, we might become
heirs having the hope of eternal life.
Titus 3:8 This is a trustworthy saying. And I want you to stress these
things, so that those who have trusted in God may be careful
to devote themselves to doing what is good. These things are
excellent and profitable for everyone.
Titus 3:9 But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and
arguments and quarrels about the law, because these are
unprofitable and useless.
Titus 3:10 Warn a divisive person once, and then warn him a second
time. After that, have nothing to do with him.
chuck <truth@YeshuaHaMashiach>
Is tax-payer-funded federal government support for abortion, fornication, deviant behavior in the Constitution ?
If W and the republicans support these things they should be guided to the understanding that this nation was founded by Christians.
The cornerstone of the law in this Christian Republic is ( or was ) Rex Lex i.e. The Law of G-d.
Matthew 23:39 For I tell you, you will not see me again until you say,
Barukh haba b'Shem Adonai
`Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.'" [Psalm 118:26]
Y'shua haMashiach
chuck <truth@YeshuaHaMashiach>
Then I suggest you set up a meeting with W and the Republican leadership so we can "enlighten" them. Let us know when and where so we can all be there.
You don't impress me with quoting scripture when someone asks you to give a reasoned exposition of your position. You are very good at pointing out what you think to be a problem, and very poor at backing up your assertions with sound reasoning. I asked for such in my post #35. What I got was Titus 3:1-10. While I love the Word of God, that was not what I asked for. YOU are making statements that are not reasonable, from my point of view. Why don't YOU tell me what you mean, and how you arrived at those conclusions? If you can't, or won't, I can only assume that you don't know, you're just blowing smoke.
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