St Basil The Great (329-379)

CIN.org ^ | January 23, 2000 | CIN.org

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

When I read that, I wonder how protestants have the gaul to say that they're "saved."

Phillippians 2:12 "Work out your own salvation" does not mean that you should work for salvation in order to obtain it. The Greek phrase "work out" denotes the expression, manifestation, or actualization of something one already possesses. The Philippians are to "work out" the salvation God has already wrought in them (v.13) carrying it to its logical conclusion.

Becky

[IGNATIUS]

If one already "possesses" it--- then why especially does Paul refer to fear and trembling??

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

Why should the desiring and doing of God's will be a matter of "fear and trembling"? Because one may not know all the sacrifices required of him in doing God's wishers. God's will for the Philippians involved "conflict" (1:30); for Jesus, death (v.8); for Paul, imprisonment and possible martyrdom (v.17) for Timothy, costly sacrificial service (v.20) etc. (v.27).

God has granted them salvation not just for their own profit, but for the good of others as well. If they work out and manifest the new life divinely worked in them, they will live lives worthy of the gospel and make the appropriate sacrifices in obedience to God as did Jesus.

These verses say nothing of losing salvation, they are just speaking of what salvation will do in our lives.

Becky

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

BTW, the whole book of Galatians is about this topic. One verse in particluar says is all. Gal. 3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect in the flesh?

Pretty clear, huh? Christ saved us, Christ keeps us saved. If you believe you can loose your salvation then you are saying Chirst failed. Do you trust Christ can save you AND keep you saved? Don't you think Christ is more powerful then even yourself? Can you finish what Christ started?

2 Tim. 1:12 For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day.Becky

[JMJ333]

We are not biblical literalists. We don't follow sola scriptura, so our theological points differ. I am not going to argue the point of your post because this isn't a thread about expounding our catechism. Its a thread for Catholics who enjoy our religion and admiring our heros. If you want to discuss theology, please find one of the numerous threads started daily or start your own to address the issue that interests you. These are our threads of respite.

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

Did you by any chance read post #13 by Lady in Blue, something about the "gaul of Protestants." Just trying to clear that up. I believe my posts were not confrontational.

This is an open forum.

I don't post to threads that are labeled "Catholic Caucus." this one wasn't, although I might have given the post that Lady in Blue posted:),

Becky

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

I should have pinged you to #26.

Becky

[Aquinasfan]

Do we need people like St. Basil the Great these days or what?

The Prefect said that nobody had ever spoken to him like that. St Basil replied, 'Perhaps that is because you have never had to deal with a bishop.'

[Aquinasfan]

Not all who are predestined for grace are predestined for glory:

Luke 8

11"This is the meaning of the parable: The seed is the word of God. 12Those along the path are the ones who hear, and then the devil comes and takes away the word from their hearts, so that they may not believe and be saved. 13Those on the rock are the ones who receive the word with joy when they hear it, but they have no root. They believe for a while, but in the time of testing they fall away. 14The seed that fell among thorns stands for those who hear, but as they go on their way they are choked by life's worries, riches and pleasures, and they do not mature. 15But the seed on good soil stands for those with a noble and good heart, who hear the word, retain it, and by persevering produce a crop.

John 6

Then Jesus replied, "Have I not chosen you, the Twelve? Yet one of you is a devil!" 71(He meant Judas, the son of Simon Iscariot, who, though one of the Twelve, was later to betray him.)

Matthew 7

21"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' 23Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'

John 15

Remain in me, and I will remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me. 5"I am the vine; you are the branches. If a man remains in me and I in him, he will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. 6If anyone does not remain in me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned. 7If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be given you. 8This is to my Father's glory, that you bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be my disciples.

[IGNATIUS]

Becky: it's difficult to reconcile Paul's acceptance of persecution as a Christian(and final martyrdom) and those referances to fear/trembling,running/completing the race of life,keeping the faith,etc(many scriptures you are aware of)---with a concept that he was all that concerned for his physical body.

The historic and ancient branches of Christendom have always understood that one can choose to forfeit his Salvation.God the Son honors our free will.What He accomplished on the Cross in defeating hell and death we could never have done.Whether or not he could keep us is really besides the point.He allows us to make this decision as we travel the journey of life.The eternal security/always saved view is not historic Christianity

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

He allows us to make this decision as we travel the journey of life.

Then I am afraid we are all hopelessly lost.

Look at the verse I quoted from Gal. It clearly is saying He saves us, and He finishes the work. I committed my life to Him and He has the power to keep me safe even from myself:)

The eternal security/always saved view is not historic Christianity

I am sorry but I have to disagree with this statement:)

Becky

[Lady In Blue]

Thank you.It's one of the things that I really have a hard time in understanding how anybody can think that they can do anything or committ any kind of sins and then go straight to heaven!

[Lady In Blue]

Hi,IGNATIUS.About sending him a copy of St Ephraim's Psalter.It's worth a try! I sure love my copy.I read a little bit every day.I'm on my second turn.

I agree with you totally about #23 Stasis.There's a lot of meat to meditate on.Absolutely beautiful!

About St Ephraim's knowledge of the Our Lord's life,when the canon was not confirmed or finished, is it possible that he was divinely enlighten and also probably word of mouth handed down generation after generation.IMHO.

[Lady In Blue]

Thanks,Desdemona.

Scripture also says that:

"Nothing unclean shall enter the kingdom of Heaven." Something to meditate on.

[Salvation]

BTTT on the Memorial of St. Basil the Great -- January 2, 2006!

[Salvation]

Reading	A sermon by St Gregory Nazianzen
Two bodies, but a single spirit
Basil and I were both in Athens. We had come, like streams of a river, from the same source in our native land, had separated from each other in pursuit of learning, and were now united again as if by plan, for God so arranged it. I was not alone at that time in my regard for my friend, the great Basil. I knew his irreproachable conduct, and the maturity and wisdom of his conversation. I sought to persuade others, to whom he was less well known, to have the same regard for him. Many fell immediately under his spell, for they had already heard of him by reputation and hearsay. What was the outcome? Almost alone of those who had come to Athens to study he was exempted from the customary ceremonies of initiation for he was held in higher honour than his status as a first-year student seemed to warrant. Such was the prelude to our friendship, the kindling of that flame that was to bind us together. In this way we began to feel affection for each other. When, in the course of time, we acknowledged our friendship and recognised that our ambition was a life of true wisdom, we became everything to each other: we shared the same lodging, the same table, the same desires the same goal. Our love for each other grew daily warmer and deeper. The same hope inspired us: the pursuit of learning. This is an ambition especially subject to envy. Yet between us there was no envy. On the contrary, we made capital out of our rivalry. Our rivalry consisted, not in seeking the first place for oneself but in yielding it to the other, for we each looked on the other’s success as his own. We seemed to be two bodies with a single spirit. Though we cannot believe those who claim that everything is contained in everything, yet you must believe that in our case each of us was in the other and with the other. Our single object and ambition was virtue, and a life of hope in the blessings that are to come; we wanted to withdraw from this world before we departed from it. With this end in view we ordered our lives and all our actions. We followed the guidance of God’s law and spurred each other on to virtue. If it is not too boastful to say, we found in each other a standard and rule for discerning right from wrong. Different men have different names, which they owe to their parents or to themselves, that is, to their own pursuits and achievements. But our great pursuit, the great name we wanted, was to be Christians, to be called Christians.

---

[Salvation]

American Catholic’s Saint of the Day

January 2, 2007

St. Basil the Great

(329-379)

Basil was on his way to becoming a famous teacher when he decided to begin a religious life of gospel poverty. After studying various modes of religious life, he founded what was probably the first monastery in Asia Minor. He is to monks of the East what St. Benedict is to the West, and his principles influence Eastern monasticism today.

He was ordained a priest, assisted the archbishop of Caesarea (now southeastern Turkey), and ultimately became archbishop himself, in spite of opposition from some of his suffragan bishops, probably because they foresaw coming reforms.

One of the most damaging heresies in the history of the Church, Arianism, which denied the divinity of Christ, was at its height. Emperor Valens persecuted orthodox believers, and put great pressure on Basil to remain silent and admit the heretics to communion. Basil remained firm, and Valens backed down. But trouble remained. When the great St. Athanasius died, the mantle of defender of the faith against Arianism fell upon Basil. He strove mightily to unite and rally his fellow Catholics who were crushed by tyranny and torn by internal dissension. He was misunderstood, misrepresented, accused of heresy and ambition. Even appeals to the pope brought no response. “For my sins I seem to be unsuccessful in everything.”

He was tireless in pastoral care. He preached twice a day to huge crowds, built a hospital that was called a wonder of the world (as a youth he had organized famine relief and worked in a soup kitchen himself) and fought the prostitution business.

Basil was best known as an orator. His writings, though not recognized greatly in his lifetime, rightly place him among the great teachers of the Church. Seventy-two years after his death, the Council of Chalcedon described him as “the great Basil, minister of grace who has expounded the truth to the whole earth.”

Comment:

As the French say, “The more things change, the more they remain the same.” Basil faced the same problems as modern Christians. Sainthood meant trying to preserve the spirit of Christ in such perplexing and painful problems as reform, organization, fighting for the poor, maintaining balance and peace in misunderstanding.

Quote:

St. Basil said: “The bread which you do not use is the bread of the hungry; the garment hanging in your wardrobe is the garment of him who is naked; the shoes that you do not wear are the shoes of the one who is barefoot; the money that you keep locked away is the money of the poor; the acts of charity that you do not perform are so many injustices that you commit.”

[Salvation]

Doctors of the Catholic Church

Saint Basil is the Father of Eastern Monasticism and the Doctor of Monasticism. He left his monastery to defend religious freedom. This Eastern bishop would advise us that all are called to holiness through commitment, prayer, and action with faith.

Perhaps the most important lesson we can learn from Basil is that we endeavor to be attuned to the Spirit. We need to be docile to the movements, motions and touches of the Holy Spirit. God is always encouraging us to listen to divine promptings. In fact, Basil was on his way to becoming a famous teacher when he decided to begin a religious life of gospel poverty.

God called Basil again to be an archbishop after he became a monk and moved him about according to the holy will of God and Basil's full cooperation.

From Fr Rengers' book: The 33 Doctors of the Church found in the doctoral sources: It has been said that the later years of St. Basil's life were just one long sickness. Cardinal Newman says of St. Basil that "from his multiplied trials he may be called the Jeremiah or Job of the fourth century... He had a very sickly constitution, to which he added the rigor of an ascetic life. He was surrounded by jealousies and dissensions at home; he was accused of heterodoxy in the world; he was insulted and roughly treated by great men; and he labored, apparently without fruit, in the endeavor to restore unity and stability to the Catholic Church." Cardinal Newman does not explicitly say so here, but even Pope St. Damasus suspected St. Basil of heresy. Basil's efforts to have St Damasus come to the East met with no success, and while Basil's ensuing bitterness indicated his intense dedication to Church unity, it showed too the personal pain of being misunderstood.

St Basil, 330-379. Doctor of Monasticism. Feast Jan 2nd.

[Salvation]

Saints Basil the Great & regory Nazianzen, Bishops & Doctors of the Church

Saints Basil the Great & Gregory Nazianzen,
Bishops & Doctors of the Church
Memorial
January 2nd

Unknown Artist
Basil and Gregory of Nazianzus,
Byzantine fresco

St. Basil (329-379) was a brilliant student born of a Christian family in Caesarea, Cappadocia (Turkey). For some years, he followed the monastic way of life. He vigorously fought the arian heresy. He become Archbishop of Caesarea in 370. Monks of the Eastern Church today still follow the monastic rules which he se down.

St. Gregory (329-389) was also from Cappadocia. A friend of St. Basil, he too followed the monastic way of life for some years. In 381 he became Archbishop of Constantinople. It was during this period the Arian heresy was at it height. He was called "The Theologian" because of his great learning and talent for oratory.

Source: Daily Roman Missal, Edited by Rev. James Socías, Midwest Theological Forum, Chicago, Illinois ©2003

Collect:
God our Father,
You inspired the Church
with the example and teaching of Your saints Basil and Gregory.
In humility may we come to know Your truth
and put it into action with faith and love.
Grant this through our Lord Jesus Christ, Your Son,
who lives and reigns with You and the Holy Spirit,
one God, for ever and ever. Amen.

First Reading: Ephesians 4:1-7, 11-13
I therefore, a prisoner for the Lord, beg you to lead a life worthy of the calling to which you have been called, with all lowliness and meekness, with patience, forbearing one another in love, eager to maintain the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call, one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of us all, who is above all and through all and in all. But grace was given to each of us according to the measure of Christ's gift. And his gifts were that some should be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, some pastors and teachers, to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ, until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ.

Gospel Reading: Matthew 23:8-12
But you are not to be called rabbi, for you have one teacher, and you are all brethren. And call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven. Neither be called masters, for you have one master, the Christ. He who is greatest among you shall be your servant; whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.

Related page on the Vatican Website: Benedict XVI, General Audience, Paul VI Audience Hall, Wednesday, July 4, 2007, Saint Basil (part 1) | Benedict XVI, General Audience, Paul VI Audience Hall, Wednesday, August 1, 2007, Saint Basil (part 2) | Benedict XVI, General Audience, Paul VI Audience Hall, Wednesday, August 8, 2007, Saint Gregory Nazianzen (part 1) | Benedict XVI, General Audience, Paul VI Audience Hall, Wednesday, August 22, 2007, Gregory Nazianzen (part 2)