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To: WriteOn; the_doc
there is no "de fide" definition of reprobation, however there is a general teaching of the Catholic Church that there is a conditioned positive Reprobation, that is, it occurs with consideration of foreseen future demerits (post et propter praevisa demerita).

When I say I don't believe in reprobation, I mean I don't believe in unconditional positive reprobation. Whereas the Westminster Confession of Faith emphatically repudiates a conditional reprobation.

The only way through that tension is to seek a doctrine that balances the universal nature of the free offer, free will and predestination. I believe this is where the Catholic Church, and many other churches are today.

That said, I can only wish I were as smart as you and Augustine and OP. :-) So I *think* that (one of?) our doctrinal quarrels are really about conditional versus unconditional reprobation.


1,502 posted on 01/31/2003 1:45:22 PM PST by OrthodoxPresbyterian (We are unworthy servants; We have only done our duty.)
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To: OrthodoxPresbyterian; the_doc
Not only does the WCF not "emphatically repudiate a conditional reprobation", the WCF emphatically teaches a Conditional Reprobation. Ch. III, sec. 7; ch. VI sec. 6; ch. XXXIII sec. 1&2. Do you even bother to read Protestant Creeds, or just repeat something that perhaps Karl Keating may have babbled in a moment of delirium?

Sorry. I cut and pasted that from here: "British Reformed Journal, The Well-Meant Offer and Reprobation, Ron Hanko"

Unfortunately, they also deny the reality of Spiritual Death, as defined by the Bible according to the doctrine of Original Sin

Maybe you could tell me where they deny this?

Calvinism teaches Conditional Reprobation, and Unconditional Election. Catholic Church dogma:
GOD, BY HIS ETERNAL RESOLVE OF WILL, HAS PREDETERMINED CERTAIN MEN TO ETERNAL BLESSEDNESS (De fide)
This doctrine is proposed by the Ordinary and General Teaching of the Church as a truth of Revelation. The doctrinal definitions of the Council of Trent presuppose it . . . The reality of Predestination is clearly attested to in Rom 8:29 et seq: . . . cf. Mt 25:34, Jn 10:27 et seq., Acts 13:48, Eph 1:4 et seq. . . . Predestination is a part of the Eternal Divine Plan of Providence.

The RCC doesn't frame it's dogma in terms of eternal decrees, making it a bit difficult to compare.

1,503 posted on 01/31/2003 2:11:50 PM PST by WriteOn
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