Do babies go to Heaven?

[PFKEY]

Hope no one minds the vanity too much.

I was thinking last night about this idea and was trying to make it jive somewhat with the notion of predeterminationalism if that is the correct word.

Also was curious regarding what the various Christian denominations taught on this subject.

[fortheDeclaration]

Westcott & Hort? I think they're theological scumbags. It's difficult to imagine how they could have been more dishonest in the way the presented their work and inserted it in the Revised version. I think they're probably in hell for what they did. There is really almost no indication that they held any significant Christian belief whatsoever, judging by their own writings. There are even Roman popes that had a far better chance to be saved than those two. I flagged ftD to this post. He's also opposed to the modern versions.

Amen!

The Greek text they constructed was a corrupt one, based on corrupt manuscripts.

Thank you for the 'flag'

[fortheDeclaration]

Amen to your post!

[fortheDeclaration]

No, just a Bible Believer. :-)

Amen!

[fortheDeclaration]

The question is not should babies be saved..but should ANY be saved??

No, the question is why are the elect saved and the non-elect damned?

You must pretty special for God to have 'chosen' you and damned someone else!

Or did God just choose you by pulling your name out of a hat?

You talk about everyone deserving to go to hell (a true statement) but sit smug in your belief that God chose you while damning someone else no less deserving then you of damnation.

It is disingenous of a Calvinist not to ask why you were chosen and then sprout pious phrases about man's depravity and God's grace.

[fortheDeclaration]

Query: The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies. True, or False? Just curious....

Do infants begin speaking as soon as they are born? (Yes or No?)

We are all born dead in the First Adam so that we all can be saved by the Second Adam.

Try reading Romans 5 and see which is greater, the first Adam's sin or the Second Adams grace (Rom.5:18)

All infants (past, present, and future) fall under the righteousness of Christ since they did not reject the free offer of grace (Jn.14:6)

[fortheDeclaration]

Do babies go to Heaven? Rickshaw precedes Equine. The first question to be asked, is: Why do babies die?

Same reason you are going to die (even though a professed Christian) death is the last enemy defeated.

We still have Adam's corruption in our bodies (Rom.7)

Ofcourse, you may not die, the Rapture may happen first!

[fortheDeclaration]

We would agree with that Jael..but would ask who will come? We say only those drawn by the Father

Gee, you must have forgotten John. 12:32 was in the Bible!

Hey, how do spiritual corpses get 'drawn' don't they have to first regenerated to respond to spiritual issues?

A spiritual 'corpse' drawn before being regenerated-amazing!

Calvinists will say anything and expect it to make sense!

[fortheDeclaration]

I trust the Righteous Judge to know best the eternal whereabouts of those who die before an age of awareness/decision. All too often the non-believer gets sucked into these discussions. It allows them to avoid the question of their own response to Jesus, while they ponder the eternity of babies and the Watutsi who hasn't heard.

Amen!

The issue is always, what do you think of Christ!

[fortheDeclaration]

And babies are innocent before a perfect and holy God?

Yes, they are because they have been condemned by Adam's sin and thus automatically fall under God's greater grace of the Second Adam (Rom.5:18)

[fortheDeclaration]

We agree...The God of Heaven NEVER judges unfairly...the scripture says "ALL men are without excuse" that includes those minutes old..and He that is Just will judge rightly!

Ha, Ha!

All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God-so why are you saved and not someone else?

What justice is that?

That is the arbitrary justice of a god that is not revealed in scripture but exists in the philosophical speculation of Calvinism.

[fortheDeclaration]

1 Tim 4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of ALL men, specially of those that believe. Did you catch that last part? Ever heard of common grace? That is all the verse is talking about. Besides, if Jesus is the SAVIOR of all men, everyone is saved. That language does not simply imply that Jesus died so they could be saved....it indicates they ARE saved if you take the interpretation that it goes against Calvinism.

yes, the verse is speaking of common grace, that all men are able to be saved (since God wants all to be saved 1Tim.2:4 and died for all men 1Jn.2:2) that all are not saved is because men reject God not that God rejects them!

Thus, 1Tim.4:10 is a dagger in the heart of the heresy of Calvinism

[fortheDeclaration]

Oh, so you are one of those KJV-only kooks. Well, I guess I know to avoid you in the future since you are simply a heretic.

No, you better avoid him because he knows his Bible, something no Calvinist can deal with.

As for the King James issue, Ian Paisly is a King James Only guy and a solid Calvinist is he not?

[fortheDeclaration]

Do all men believe? No. Does Christ offer the same salvation to all men? Yes. As every Calvinist believes.

Here comes the Calvinist double-talk!

So God offers salvation to every man but since no spiritually dead man can respond and it is God that chooses those who will be saved,the 'offer' is a sham!

Calvinists have no qualms in making God a liar to defend their heretical nonsense.

[fortheDeclaration]

Jael sounds surprising like another poster on this forum who because of his silly theology was being ignored by most other discerning posters. Could it be he changed his screenname so that people would respond to him?

Hey 'locke' you talking about me?

No, 'Jael' is not me, just another solid Bible believer.

Calvinist 'discernment' consists of talking nonsense to each other!

[fortheDeclaration]

That is a national conversion of Israel (Heb.8:8, Jer.31:31, Rom. 11:26) and has nothing to do with salvation today (1Cor.15:3-5).

As for election, there are two types, one redemptive in nature and one towards outward privileges.

The election of Israel is the latter and is unconditional.

[fortheDeclaration]

The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies. False. So the Bible lies?

1Jn.2:2, 2Pet.3:9, 1Tim.2:4, 1Tim.4:10, Jn.3:16, Rom.5:18, Heb.2:9, Ezek 33:11

So the Bible lies does it?

[fortheDeclaration]

If babies did not inherit a sinful nature, they obviously could not die, could they? Very insightful......

They stand condemned so that they may be saved (Romans 5)

God's grace is greater then Adam's sin.

They die physically because death is the final enemy conquered, the same reason we who are saved still die, death is in our mortal bodies (Rom.7)

[fortheDeclaration]

Running through the concordance the words 'all' and posting isn't exactly going to convince anybody. You are ignoring context as well.

Well, give us the context from Jn.3:16 that shows that it is speaking of all without distinction and not all without exception.

How about 1Tim.2:4? (Spurgeon did not go for that one)

2Pet.3:9 (Calvin didn't go for that one!)

[fortheDeclaration]

Jael if you are saved because God looked forwad in time and saw who would accept his offer and he THEN elected them..they are saved by works..it is the most hidious doctrine that says God chose you because you chose Him. It is salvation by works

What part of Romans 4:4-5 do you not understand (or reject?)?

Faith is not a work!

[fortheDeclaration]

1Jo 4:19We love him, because he first loved us.

Yes, and that love was expressed for all men (1Jn.2:2, Jn.3:16) in general and for the Church (Christ's bride) in particular (Eph.5:25)