[Catholicguy]

<> That is not necessarily a benificence. The Mass is the Mass is the Mass. Adopting an attitude of "never changing" the Liturgy is to court the error of mistaking the "accidents" of the setting of the Liturgy with the "sustance" of the Mass, the action of Jesus, offering Himself as a Sacrifice of propititiation for His people, as both priest and victim. On these threads one can witness so-called traditionalists making that error repeatedly. They have made of a Rite a superstition

Besides, the Litrugy of St. J. Chrysostom was itself radically changed early on, as you well know<>

[pegleg]

Besides, the Litrugy of St. J. Chrysostom was itself radically changed early on, as you well know

I wonder if it was considered innovative when St. John Chrysostom introduced it?

[ultima ratio]

Your conflict is with Ratzinger and Klaus Gamber who know a lot more than you will ever know about the liturgy. Clearly the Mass is NOT the Mass, as you try to argue. One has been divinely ordained and transmitted through the ages, the other has been fabricated by modernists. Your attempt to equate the two is laughable--but also pernicious. The Traditional Mass has Catholic doctrinal underpinnings, the new Mass has Protestant doctrinal underpinnings. For instance, the latter emphasizes the meal aspect of the Mass and suppresses any conscious allusion to the Real Presence. On the contrary, everything is done to deemphasize that doctrine and to suppress its articulation as well as the yearning of the faithful to adore. Hence we have communion in the hands and no kneeling before communion. Do you think this is accidental? Is the removal of the words "Mystery of Faith" from the Consecration accidental as well? You can hardly say so. These are deliberate assaults on Traditional faith in order to appeal to non-Catholics.

[ultima ratio]

Reread the excerpt. No one denies change is possible. But it is gradual, incremental, organic. The liturgy grows and changes like a living organism. This is Ratzinger's point-- and Jungmann's and Gamber's. What is NOT permissible is revolutionary change, radical change. This is what Ratzinger stated in his preface to Gamber's classic text: "In the place of liturgy as the fruit of development came fabricated liturgy. We abandoned the living, organic process of growth and development over the centuries, and replaced it--as with a manufacturing process--with a fabrication, an on-the-spot product."

[MarMema]

They have made of a Rite a superstition

And so we are often called as well.