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To: Pyro7480
Look, nobody denies gradual change is inevitable. But revolution is out of the question. The Catholic Church emerged from the collapse of the Roman Empire virtually unchanged. Ditto from the French Revolution. Radical change in the world at large should be no pretext for radical change in the life of the Church.

The Protestant Reformation was different. It began as an attempt at revolution from within, but ended up as heresy. The Church rejected the assault from within and reaffirmed its Catholic identity. Now we face a similar assault--a complete seismic shift away from the deposit of faith to a new heretical religion more attuned to the Protestant theological perspective. This is what is totally unacceptable and must once more be rejected.

Notice how the modernists go about it. Not by an open denial of the faith, but by a subtle undermining of basic Catholic doctrines and rituals. No new doctrine has ever been expressly declared, though many outrageous trial balloons have been floated, but the Catholic perspective is still being systematically erased. This is because essential dogmas go untaught to the younger generation. They are being deliberately suppressed and ignored.

Here is one example. The Real Presence is not a dogma that is much mentioned. If modernists truly believed that Christ were present on the altar, Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity, after the words of Consecration--would they have removed all acknowledgment of the immensity of this fact? Would they have insisted, under one pretext or another, on removing references to this enormous truth in the text or in the rubrics of the New Mass, erasing all but one genuflection by the priest and even now prohibiting kneeling before communion? They do this in violation of Catholic yearnings to express devotion and adoration, and in violation of all Catholic tradition.

This can only be explained by modernist disbelief in the Catholic theological perspective. Loss of faith explains why the focus is on the assemblage and on Christ's virtual presence only in their midst, rather than on Christ's Real Presence offered as a sacrifice to the Father. Disbelief in the Catholic perspective also explains the casualness of communion in the hands and the shunting aside of the tabernacle and so much else. Christ is not actually present to these men, so they show this by what they do and decree.

This change in the way Catholics pray together at the Mass, together with hundreds of other changes, from a newly liberalized moral theology to the ripping-out of communion rails, has created a crisis in the Church and in the Catholic community. Very little now separates Catholics from Protestants. A whole generation of young people no longer believes in many of the doctrines once thought to be what essentially defined a Catholic--which seems not at all to bother the Vatican. It continues to push the envelope and to institute its many radical changes. So this is where we stand today. The new religion, more in keeping with mainline Protestantism, is being gradually imposed and the old faith is being gradually rejected.
122 posted on 11/11/2002 6:03:17 PM PST by ultima ratio
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To: ultima ratio
Thank you ultima for your response. I thought your response made a pretty well-reasoned argument for the most part until I reached the following statements:
Very little now separates Catholics from Protestants. A whole generation of young people no longer believes in many of the doctrines once thought to be what essentially defined a Catholic--which seems not at all to bother the Vatican.

As far as I know, this "crisis" has largely been "limited" the "Roman rite" church, and not the "Eastern" rites of the Catholic church (I could be wrong). So you cannot say that conclusively. Also, it seems from my observations of your posts that you seem to be an enthusiast of the "pre-Vatican II" Church. But even this Church hasn't been everlasting. The Tridentine Mass was set in its "current" form at the Council of Trent (hence the name). The liturgies of the Eastern rites (the Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom et al) are much older in their current forms than the Tridentine Mass. Do you doubt the validity and tradition of these rites?

I think one major problem here is that a blanket statement is being applied to all Catholics, and in particular, young Catholics (of which I am one). I think the miracle of this situation is that even with all that you have described, there are scores of young people who seek the Truth out, of our faith and our tradition. As much as the "crisis" has "liberalized moral theology" and "ripped-out communion rails," there are young people who are being divinely inspired to seek the Truth out. Many teachings have been left out of the religious education of these young people, yet the seek the Truth out. Why is that?

I think it is because of the individual nature of our Catholic faith. As much as Catholicism is a communal experience (the Mass, our religious upbringing, etc.), we still hear God "calling each one of us by name." While our parents, our extended family, and our Church teach us the tenets of our faith, it is nothing until we hear the call of God ourselves and respond by making the faith our own. This requires a conversion of the heart.

Yes, there might possibly be a revolution going on the Church at this moment. But it is probably MORE due to the inaction of many, than the actions of very few. If these things are supposedly happening because of Vatican II and the actions of the Holy See, there probably wouldn't be in as much of a problem. No, we are at this point, in my opinion, because we let the secular rule too much of our civilization, and as a result, opportunists ("liberation" theory theologians, leftists, peverts, et al) saw their chance to corrupt the Church when the Council met and in its wake, and make up their own rules as they saw fit. In response, too many of us have been complacent, and not have done our best to teach our offspring what Catholics believe. As Burke also said, "They only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." The Church has survived through far worse times. What we can do without is the corrupt intentions of the opportunists and the rantings from all sides, and trust in God. My "mottos" are the following:
Ex fide et ratione, Dominus(in other words, you will find the Lord through faith and reason, which is the "legacy" of St. Thomas Aquinas) and Vive Jesus (Live Jesus, a command)

123 posted on 11/11/2002 10:07:06 PM PST by Pyro7480
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