The Twenty Mysteries of the Rosary?

Seattle Catholic ^ | November 8, 2002 | John Vennari

[ultima ratio]

The Twenty Mysteries of the Rosary? by John Vennari

The Apostolic Letter opens the door for a "pastoral approach" to the Rosary that is "positive, impassioned and creative - as shown by World Youth Days". In other words, a nod is given to a jazzed-up Rosary for the "youth".

"When one lives by novelty, there will always have to be a new novelty." - Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen

On October 16, 2002, Pope John Paul II marked the 24th Anniversary of his papacy with the release of the Apostolic Letter Rosarium Virginis Mariae, in which he proclaimed a "Year of the Rosary" from October 2002 to October 2003. The document also contained a major innovation from a Pope whose Pontificate has been marked by a steady stream of novelties. He announced that he would add five new mysteries to the Rosary.

Word of the new mysteries was reported first on October 14 by various news agencies claiming that information was leaked from Vatican sources.

Father Richard John Neuhaus from First Things magazine found these early reports hard to believe, and told The Chicago Tribune that the Pope was not likely to alter the Rosary. "That he would suggest," said Neuhaus "or even declare some kind of official change to the Rosary is totally atypical, totally out of character." Neuhaus then said that the Pope does not have the authority to mandate changes in such a prayer.1

Father Neuhaus is correct that a Pope cannot mandate such changes, but he is mistaken to claim that the Pope's change of the Rosary would be "out of character" for this Pontiff of post-Conciliar aggiornamento. Even the secular press recognizes John Paul II as a man with a passion for setting papal precedents.

The New York Times' Frank Bruni wrote on October 15: "Time and again, Pope John Paul II has boldly gone where other Popes have not: a synagogue, a ski slope, distant countries with tiny populations. Tomorrow, he will apparently cross another frontier, making a significant change in the Rosary, a signature method of Catholic prayer for many centuries." 2

Bruni failed to mention that John Paul is also the first Pope to kiss the Koran,3 participate in rock'n'roll liturgies,4 allow Altar Girls, permit "lay ministers" to distribute Communion at his Papal Mass,5 suggest a "common martyrology" that contains Catholics and non- Catholics, praise documents that call the need for non- Catholics to convert to the Catholic Church an "outdated ecclesiology," 6 take part in "inculturated" ceremonies that includes pagan ritual,7 and convoke pan-religious prayer meetings that include Catholics, Protestants, Jews, Muslims, Hindus and Snake-worshipers.8

On the same theme, Rueters said, "Changing one of Christianity's most fundamental prayers after nearly a millennium will be a typical way for the 82- year-old Pope to crown 24 years of a pontificate marked by bold initiatives sometimes taken against the advice of aides." 9

The "new mysteries" of the Rosary took everyone by surprise. Thus I have postponed publication of Part III of my World Youth Day series10 in order to comment on this latest "bold initiative".

The Apostolic Letter

Two weeks previously, the pontiff announced he was preparing a document to stress the value of the Rosary. He urged the faithful to recite the Rosary, including together as families. John Paul said then that he wanted people to "rediscover the beauty and depth of this prayer".

The Pope, for a good part of the Apostolic Letter was true to his word. Much of Rosarium Virginis Mariae is praiseworthy, even edifying. How can one argue with the promulgation of a "Year of the Rosary" in order to revitalize practice of this Holy devotion? How can one find fault with the Pope's call to pray the Rosary for peace? How can one complain when the Pope laments that families are fragmented, that they often get together only to watch television, and that they should set some time aside to pray the Rosary together instead?

Also of interest was the Pope's frequent references to Blessed Bartholomew Longo (1841-1926) who was baptized Catholic, left the faith to become a satanic priest, and then repented, converted back to Catholicism and became an apostle of the Rosary. This is a beautiful lesson that conversion is possible even in apparently hopeless cases.

It is probable that the Letter will do much good in revitalizing Rosary devotion. Tens-of-thousands of Catholics who do not follow the details of Vatican events, will simply learn through the press, or from parish priests, that the Pope wants a renewed devotion to the Rosary and they will comply. I have little doubt that this Letter will produce its desired goal to inspire more Catholics in this holy exercise.

Yet at the same time, countless Catholics are baffled at the unnecessary addition of five new mysteries. What is this strange post-conciliar belief among today's Church leaders that Catholics will not find a traditional devotion interesting unless John Paul updates it? Why is it thought necessary to disfigure our devotions in order to capture a Catholic's attention? Why was it requisite for the Pope to put his personal stamp on the Rosary, rather than simply promote it as is: as did all the Popes before him, as did countless saints, and as did the Mother of God at Fatima?

The New Mysteries

The addition proposed by the Pope, called the Five Luminous Mysteries, also called the "Mysteries of Light," center on the public life of Christ. They are:

the Baptism of Christ in Jordan, the Wedding Feast at Cana, the Announcement of the Kingdom, the Transfiguration, the Institution of the Eucharist as the sacramental expression of the Paschal Mystery. These new mysteries, according to John Paul, are to be placed between the Joyful and Sorrowful Mysteries.

The Pope says that these additions are not mandatory, and explains his reason for the change. "I believe" he writes, "that to bring out fully the Christological depth of the Rosary, it would be suitable to make an addition to the traditional pattern which, while left to the freedom of individuals and communities, could broaden it to include the mysteries of Christ's public ministry between His Baptism and His Passion." 11

Do you know of any Catholic, any saint, any Pope who ever considered the Rosary "lacking" in Christological depth? Did not the saints and the Popes constantly speak of the excellence of the Rosary? Did they ever suggest a radical addition to alter the structure of the Rosary in order to "improve" what was already excellent?

Reaction to the new mysteries has been predictable: everything from traditional Catholics who call it an "outrage," to Medjugorje followers who claim it "bears all the hallmarks of Divine inspiration". Once again, the much-vaunted "Pope of unity" has launched a novelty that divides Catholics.

And the question is, why?

Perhaps we should first ask, why not change the Rosary?

The Psalter Assaulted

A constant characteristic of the pre-Vatican II Popes was to abhor novelty and to safeguard tradition, including traditional devotions.

Thus, if one could go back in time and ask any of the pre-Vatican II Popes why they never added "new mysteries" to the Rosary, the answer is easy to presume. "Because," the pre-conciliar Pope would say, "if I add 5 new mysteries, I will have to add 5 new decades. If I add five new decades, then the Rosary can no longer be called 'Our Lady's Psalter'. Now Catholic tradition, my holy predecessors and Our Blessed Mother referred to the Rosary as Her 'Psalter', because the 150 Hail Mary's of the 15-decade Rosary correspond to the 150 Psalms of David. It would be audacious of me to add 5 decades. This would be the decimation of the entire concept of Mary's 'Psalter', a term hallowed by centuries of usage, a term that explains the origin and essence of the Rosary, a term used by the Queen of Heaven Herself. Further, if I make this radical change to the Rosary, then what is to prevent more radical changes in the future?"

The History of Mary's Psalter

The entire history of the Rosary is bound up with the 150 Psalms of the Old Testament, otherwise known as the Psalter of David. From the dawn of Catholic history, monks and hermits prayed these Psalms as part of their daily liturgical life.

Saint Benedict, in his Holy Rule, explains that the monks of the desert recited the 150 Psalms every day. Saint Benedict arranged the Psalms for his monks so that all 150 would be recited in one week.12 This became the Divine Office (Breviary) that priests and religious recited every day until the post-conciliar aggiornamento revolutionized both Breviary and Mass.

The story of "Mary's Psalter" reportedly begins with the Irish monks in the 7th Century. These monks divided the 150 Psalms of David into a Na tri coicat format of three groups of fifty. Arranged in such a way, the "fifties" served both as reflective and corporal/penitential prayer.13

The people of the Middle Ages in their great love of Our Lady set to fashioning "Rosariums" in Her honor. They composed Psalms in praise of Mary to match the 150 Psalms of David. St. Anselm of Canterbury (1109) made such a Rosary. In the 13th Century, St. Bonaventure divided his 150 Marian Psalms into three groups. The first group commenced with the word Ave, the next with Salve, and the final fifty Psalms each commented with the word Gaude. Such Rosaries of praise took the name of Our Lady's Psalter.14

It was not long before the custom of reciting Hail Mary's became the substitute of reciting the Psalms in praise of Our Lady. "By the 13th Century" writes the Redemptorist Father James Galvin, "the number of Aves was set at one hundred and fifty to equal the number of the Psalms of David." 15

Saint Thomas Aquinas explains that the Psalter of David, composed as it is of one hundred and fifty Psalms, is divided into three equal parts of fifty Psalms each. These three equal parts represent figuratively the three stages in which the faithful find themselves: the state of penance, the state of justice, the state of glory. Likewise, explains Father Anthony Fuerst, "the Rosary of Mary is divided into three parts of fifty Hail Mary's each in order to express fully the phrases of the life of the faithful: penance, justice and glory." 16

Heaven itself declared the immeasurable value of this Psalter. In 1214, Our Blessed Mother told Saint Dominic to "preach My Psalter" in order to rekindle faith, to convert sinners and to crush stubborn heresy. Saint Louis de Montfort tells the story in his magnificent work, The Secret of the Rosary.

"Saint Dominic," writes Saint Louis, "seeing that the gravity of the peoples' sin was hindering the conversion of the Albigensians, withdrew to a forest near Toulouse where he prayed unceasingly for three days and three nights. During this time he did nothing but weep and do harsh penances in order to appease the anger of Almighty God. He used his discipline so much that his body was lacerated, and finally he fell into a coma."

Our Lady then appeared to him, accompanied by three angels. She said, "Dear Dominic, do you know which weapon the Blessed Trinity wants to use to reform the world?"

Saint Dominic asked Her to tell him. Our Lady responded:

"I want you to know that, in this kind of warfare, the battering ram has always been the Angelic Psalter which is the foundation stone of the New Testament. Therefore if you want to reach these hardened souls and win them over to God, preach My Psalter." 17

Our Lady's words contain two special points of interest:

She uses the language of the Church militant. She does not speak of the Rosary in a sentimental manner in order to achieve good feelings or pan-religious unity. No, She refers to it as battering ram against heresy.

She twice uses the term "Psalter", which is the Rosary designated as 150 Aves that link it to the Psalms of David. Regarding the Rosary's traditional structure, Msgr. George Shea writes, "Because its 150 Hail Mary's correspond to the 150 Psalms of the Psalter, the complete Rosary is sometimes called Our Lady's Psalter. In fact, the latter was its common designation down to the end of the 15th Century, while 'Rosary' was reserved for a part, i.e., a third, of Our Lady's Psalter." 18

As late as the last quarter of the 15th Century, Blessed Alaus de Rupe protested vigorously against the use of the terms "Rosario," "Chapelet" or "Corono," and insisted that the title of Our Lady's Psalter be retained.19 Msgr. Shea points out that the first indication from a Pope that the Psalter of Mary is commonly called "Rosary" is found in the Apostolic Constitution of Pope Leo X, Pastor Aeterni dated October 6, 1520, over three hundred years after Our Lady spoke to Saint Dominic.

The Constant Language of the Popes

The term "Psalter" of Mary, as a link to the 150 Psalms of David, is what we find consistently from the Popes throughout the centuries.

The Apostolic Constitution of Pope Leo X, Pastor Aeterni October 6, 1520, uses the term "Psalter of Mary" in connection to the Rosary.20

Pope Saint Pius V wrote in Consueverunt Romani of September 17, 1569, "And so Dominic looked to that simple way of praying and beseeching God, accessible to all and wholly pious, which is called the Rosary, or Psalter of the Blessed Virgin Mary, in which the same most Blessed Virgin is venerated by the angelic greeting repeated one hundred and fifty times, that is, according to the number of the Davidic Psalter, and by the Lord's Prayer with each decade." 21

Pope Leo XIII wrote "Just as by the recitation of the Divine Office, priests offer a public, constant, and most efficacious supplication; so the supplication offered by the members of this Sodality in the recitation of the Rosary, or 'Psalter of Our Lady' ..." 22

Pope Leo XIII later said, "The formula of the Rosary, too, is excellently adapted to prayer in common, so that it has been styled, not without reason, the 'Psalter of Mary'." 23

Pope Pius XI wrote in his Encyclical Ingravescentibus Malis. "Among the various supplications with which we successfully appeal to the Virgin Mother of God, the Holy Rosary without doubt occupies a special and distinct place. This prayer, which some call the Psalter of the Virgin or Breviary of the Gospel and of Christian life, was described and recommended by Our Predecessor of happy memory, Leo XIII ..." 24

Sadly, Pope John Paul II has made the term "Psalter of Mary" with its rightful connection to the Psalter of David, as obsolete as fund drives for Pagan Babies. Anyone who accepts the twenty-decade Rosary, and still refers to the Rosary as Mary's Psalter, will use the term divested of meaning. Why introduce this destabilization? Would not Pope John Paul show more respect to the pious sentiments of Catholics worldwide, to his predecessors and to the Mother of God by leaving Her Psalter at peace?

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[malakhi]

Re: your #130. This non-Catholic says bravo! What a terrific attitude you evince. I particularly liked this passage:

We have raised our children Catholic by homeschooling them for years and then working with other Catholic homeschoolers in the development of our own schools. This is also not unique. They don't watch network TV or sitcoms. They don't hang out at malls. They don't have unaccounted for free time to do what they please or what others please. We take a very serious interest in their friends and associates. They have plenty of "socialization," plenty of classical education, languages ancient and modern, good literature, Saxon Math. It costs us luxuries that others may take for granted but our kids are more important than material goods.

[ultima ratio]

What, pray tell, is a "schismatic mentality"? Who has defined it? What encyclical has denounced it? What is this strange malady that you catch while attending a traditional Mass at an SSPX chapel? Do you catch it from listening to a homily on the Gospel? Do you catch it from listening to Gregorian chant? Maybe you catch it from having coffee with other families comparing notes on homeschooling. It must be a terrible malady--so many of you Novus Ordo types keep worrying about it.

[Desdemona]

If the parents have an indifferentist outlook, how can the children be expected to know, care or believe in their family's nominal religion?

OTOH, if a parent's grip is too tight, kids may reject religion as form of rebellion. I've seen a lot of that. Mostly due to outside influences, particularly public school.

[Catholicguy]

<> So, what was the name of that wine again? I'd like to check it out. I remember you were fairly high in your recomendating it.

BTW, to hang-out with you, black elk, tom fleming and scott reichert would be such a blast that I'd pick-up the wine tab:)<>

[sitetest]

Dear ultima ratio,

"What, pray tell, is a 'schismatic mentality'?"

Glad you asked! Didn't know you were laboring in ignorance. Here is a link to EWTN with a letter from the Pontifical Commission Ecclesia Dei:

http://www.ewtn.com/library/CURIA/CEDSSPX2.HTM

I will quote a bit from the letter:

"While it is true that participation in the Mass at the chapels of the Society of St. Pius X does not of itself constitute 'formal adherence to the schism', such adherence can come about over a period of time as one slowly imbibes a schismatic mentality which separates itself from the teaching of the Supreme Pontiff and the entire Catholic Church classically exemplified in A Rome and Econe Handbook which states in response to question 14 that the SSPX defends the traditional catechisms and therefore the Old Mass, and so attacks the Novus Ordo, the Second Vatican Council and the New Catechism, all of which more or less undermine our unchangeable Catholic faith."

And of course, we have these comments from our Holy Father himself, from the actual letter, Ecclesia Dei:

"5. Faced with the situation that has arisen, I deem it my duty to inform all the Catholic faithful of some aspects which this sad event has highlighted....

"c) In the present circumstances I wish especially to make an appeal both solemn and heartfelt, paternal and fraternal, to all those who until now have been linked in various ways to the movement of Archbishop Lefebvre, that they may fulfill the grave duty of remaining united to the vicar of Christ in the unity of the Catholic Church and of ceasing their support in any way for that movement. Everyone should be aware that formal adherence to the schism is a grave offense against God and carries the penalty of excommunication decreed by the church's law.[8]"

I know, I know. It's just the word of the Supreme Pontiff of the Holy Catholic Church, the word of the Vicar of Christ, against the high and mighty ultima ratio, but it will do for me.


sitetest

[malakhi]

OTOH, if a parent's grip is too tight, kids may reject religion as form of rebellion. I've seen a lot of that. Mostly due to outside influences, particularly public school.

Yes, it is a balancing act. There is the risk that children might reject their parent's beliefs. But hopefully at minimum they have some foundation, and something to return to later in life. Those who raise their children secularly are denying their children a whole dimension of life. Many of these children end up being victims of religious or political demogogues, because they seek something they are lacking inside.

[sitetest]

Dear Catholicguy,

The winery is Ingleside in Oak Grove, Virginia.

The URL is: www.ipwine.com .

You can order their stuff by phone, or on-line pretty soon, if your state permits. Maryland, where I live, doesn't permit it. I have to drive there.

The '99 vintage, being from a year of severe drought in this area, is turning out very, very nicely. I have a couple of cases of the Cabernet Sauvignon and the Merlot, both from '99.

"BTW, to hang-out with you, black elk, tom fleming and scott reichert would be such a blast that I'd pick-up the wine tab:)<>"

Hey, I tend to go anywhere there is free wine. ;-)


sitetest

[Desdemona]

Those who raise their children secularly are denying their children a whole dimension of life. Many of these children end up being victims of religious or political demogogues, because they seek something they are lacking inside.

At this point, I know people in every posible combination. I honestly believe that the biggest part of where the belief system ends up is influences in the mid-late teen years, unless there is a strong conversion experience somewhere in there, and whether or not people are happy or miserable in their life. Seriously, if people believe they are miserable, they will avoid what they believe is causing the misery. It's sad, but....

And, yes, some point most people look for fulfillment when their lives seem empty.

[sitetest]

Dear ultima ratio,

It bears repeating:

"c) In the present circumstances I wish especially to make an appeal both solemn and heartfelt, paternal and fraternal, to all those who until now have been linked in various ways to the movement of Archbishop Lefebvre, that they may fulfill the grave duty of remaining united to the vicar of Christ in the unity of the Catholic Church and of ceasing their support in any way for that movement. Everyone should be aware that formal adherence to the schism is a grave offense against God and carries the penalty of excommunication decreed by the church's law.[8]"

sitetest

[sitetest]

Dear Bud,

"Your conclusions don't mean squat for me come judgement day."

I don't think that I've asserted otherwise.

Are you trying to change the subject?

;-)


sitetest

[ultima ratio]

You must be joking. Criticizing the Novus Ordo and the Council and the Catechism leads to a schismatic mentality? LOL. Is Cardinal Ratzinger schimatic? Does he have a schismatic mentality because he criticizes the Novus Ordo openly and frequently? Is Atila Sinke Guimaraes schismatic for criticizing the Council for its many ambiguities and contradictions? Is it schismatic to point out the New Catechism teaches novelties differing on many points from past catechisms? None of these acts of criticism have ever been considered wrong or in any way improper. To use such an argument to suggest such criticism leads to a schismatic mentality, therefore, is not only obviously false, it is totally unreasonable.

For one thing, the SSPX does not question the validity of the New Mass, only its doctrinal deficiencies--something it has every right to do. For another, the SSPX does not question the authenticity of the Council, only its wisdom--something it has again the right to do. And since when is it schismatic to question a mere catechism? Criticism of the Novus Ordo especially is not only NOT tantamount to undermining the "unchangeable Catholic faith," it is absolutely necessary to do so if we are to extract the Church from its present crisis. The Novus Ordo has been criticized since the moment of its inception by eminent theologians, including those of the SSPX. Cardinal Ratzinger has himself made the claim that it is actually the Novus Ordo which has endangered the faith, not the other way around:
___________________________________________________________
Cardinal Ratzinger . . .
Blames Church Crisis On Liturgical Collapse

by Paul Likoudis

The unprecedented manner in which Pope Paul VI imposed the Novus Ordo of the Mass created tragic consequences for the Roman Catholic Church, says Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger, prefect of the Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, in his new autobiography.

Not only did the banning of the old Mass represent a severe departure from tradition, but the revolutionary manner in which the new Mass was imposed has created the impression that liturgy is something each community creates on its own, not something which "is given."

Rather than being a force for unity in the Church, the new Mass has been the source of liturgical anarchy, dividing Catholics "into opposing party positions" and creating a situation in which the Church is "lacerating herself."

Formally imposed after a six-month period of "liturgical experimentation" in which anything —and everything—did go, the Roman Catholic Mass has never attained a universality, stability—or even an element of predictably—for most Catholics around the world; but instead has been a stimulus for never-ending innovations—from altar girls to dancing girls to women priests.

While the Missal of Paul VI "brought with it some authentic improvements and a real enrichment," the banning of the old Mass caused some "extremely serious damages for us," he wrote in La Mia Vita, released in mid-April in its Italian translation.

"I was dismayed by the banning of the old Missal," he wrote, "seeing that a similar thing had never happened in the entire history of the liturgy....

"The promulgation of the banning of the Missal that had been developed in the course of centuries. starting from the time of the sacramentaries of the ancient Church, has brought with it a break in the history of the liturgy whose consequences could be tragic.... The old structure was broken to pieces and another was constructed admittedly with material of which the old structure had been made and using also the preceding models....

"But the fact that [the liturgy] was presented as a new structure, set up against what had been formed in the course of history and was now prohibited, and that the liturgy was made to appear in some ways no longer as a living process but as a product of specialized knowledge and juridical competence, has brought with it some extremely serious damages for us.

"In this way, in fact, the impression has arisen that the liturgy is 'made,' that it is not something that exists before us, something 'given,' but that it depends on our decisions. It follows as a consequence that this decision-making capacity is not recognized only in specialists or in a central authority, but that, in the final analysis, each 'community' wants to give itself its own liturgy. But when the liturgy is something each one makes by himself, then it no longer gives us what is its true quality: encounter with the mystery which is not our product but our origin and the wellspring of our life....

"I am convinced that the ecclesial crisis in which we find ourselves today depends in great part upon the collapse of the liturgy, which at times is actually being conceived of etsi Deus non daretur: as though in the liturgy it did not matter any more whether God exists and whether He speaks to us and listens to us.

"But if in the liturgy the communion of faith no longer appears, nor the universal unity of the Church and of her history, nor the mystery of the living Christ, where is it that the Church still appears in her spiritual substance?," he asked.

Too often, Ratzinger lamented, "the community is only celebrating itself without its being worthwhile to do so."

The book's German title translates to: From My Life: Remembrances 1927-1977.

On at least two other occasions, Cardinal Ratzinger has criticized specific liturgical abuses, while on other highly publicized events, such as the Ordinations of seminarians into the Priestly Fraternity of St. Peter, he has praised the beauty of the old Mass.

But his newly released autobiography is the first prolonged lament over the wholesale replacement of one liturgy with another.

In 1969, Pope Paul VI issued his General Instruction of the Roman Missal, revising the Order of the Mass and related prayers. The old Mass rite was to be banned, with few exceptions, after a transition period of several months.

Although the Mass had undergone evolutionary changes through the history of the Church, there was always a sense of "continuity," Ratzinger wrote. Even Pope Pius V, who reworked the Roman Missal. in 1570 following the Council of Trent, allowed for the continued use of some liturgies with centuries-long traditions.

Cardinal Ratzinger said there "is need for a new liturgical. movement to call back to life the true heritage of Vatican Council II.

"For the life of the Church, it is dramatically urgent to have a renewal of liturgical. awareness, a liturgical reconciliation, which goes back to recognizing the unity in the history of the liturgy and understands Vatican II not as a break, but as a developing moment."

Pope Paul VI's new Mass has been a contentious issue in the Church since its introduction in 1969, not only fueling a bitter Church dispute involving the late Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre, who was excommunicated by Pope John Paul II in 1988, but prompting millions of Catholics to question the legitimacy—not only of the Mass, but of the Pope who approved it.

Even after Pope John Paul in his 1988 apostolic letter Ecclesia Dei called on his bishops to be "generous" in giving Catholics access to the Tridentine rite, in a compassionate gesture aimed at healing some of the divisions and discontent over the Novus Ordo, many bishops, and even cardinals, notably Detroit's Adam Cardinal Maida, have refused to accommodate the desires of Catholics for the old Mass.

[ultima ratio]

Do you know what "formal adherence to schism" means? It is a legal term. It does not apply to me or anybody else who attends an SSPX Mass. It may make you feel better when you post such slanders, but it doesn't make them any less stupid.

[sitetest]

Dear ultima ratio,

"You must be joking."

No, just quoting the Vatican.

Now you're just trying to change the subject. You laughed at the term "schismatic mentality". I didn't make it up. I showed that it is a term used by the Church herself to describe what is happening over time to those who try to attach themselves to the SSPX. Now you are quibbling with the definition.

You want to argue about the definition citing this one and that. Those of us who have been conversing with you for any length of time are familiar with your inability to quote correctly, or correctly understand what folks are actually saying, as well as your sometime failure to actually quote a real quote.

Thus, wise people ignore your quotes and citations, having learned that they aren't what they seem to be. You use these citations like a drunk uses a lamppost, not for illumination, but for support.

I know that you think that your judgement is superior to that of the Catholic Church. I just don't agree with you.


sitetest

[sitetest]

Dear ultima ratio,

"Do you know what "formal adherence to schism" means? It is a legal term. It does not apply to me or anybody else who attends an SSPX Mass."

You keep telling yourself that.

Everyone can read for themselves that you are in disobedience to the direct instructions of the Supreme Pontiff, and that it is the Supreme Pontiff who warns you about the consequences of schism.

But I'm not going to get further into this. You have had your metaphorical brains beaten on this and many other points concerning your rejection of the Catholic Church. Those who wish to replay it, or play it for the first time, can read through the threads bookmarked on my profile page.

If you, ultima, wish to re-argue this for the umpteenth time, you, too, can go read through the threads again, and shadow-box with them.

By the way, I'll continue to keep you in my prayers.


sitetest

[ultima ratio]

Wrong again. There are no direct instructions. Most canonists now admit the charge of schism is mistaken. But think what you want to think, it in no way affects the reality that Archbishop Lefebvre was completely right and the Pope completely wrong. That is to say, the Archbishop saw the corruption and apostasy and refused to contribute to this by destroying his Society; the Pope, on the other hand, was blind to what was really going on and issued an improper command. JnPII has yet to institute a single necessary ecclesiastical reform in response to the almost universal corruption, by the way, showing how much he is still completely mistaken. To him, it's business as usual--and that business is to dismantle the pre-conciliar Church as expeditiously as possible and to establish his novel doctrines.

[sitetest]

Dear ultima ratio,

"Blah blah blah..." "Wrong again. There are no direct instructions."

"Most canonists..."

LOL. According to YOU. We all know your record in quoting and characterizing what others say.

In the meanwhile, I'll repeat the words of the Supreme Pontiff of the Holy Catholic Church one more time:

"to all those who until now have been linked in various ways to the movement of Archbishop Lefebvre, that they may fulfill the grave duty of remaining united to the vicar of Christ in the unity of the Catholic Church and of ceasing their support in any way for that movement."

If you wish to remain united to the Vicar of Christ, you must cease your support for the SSPX. The choice is yours.

For the gory details, re-read the threads where other posters worthier than I defeated every argument you made.

sitetest

[Dajjal]

"But a 'suggestion to add' five mysteries from Pope John Paul II is, de facto a 'fait accompli addition' of those five mysteries. I may be free to say them or not, but 'The Rosary" is no longer fifteen mysteries long, it is now twenty mysteries long, and all of the wealth of devotional art and literature containing only the fifteen is henceforth obsolete and unusable."
If you only say the 15 mysteries, then all of your devotional literature exactly fits your preferences, and therefore is not obsolete.

Do you phenomenologists believe there is an objective world at all? Is there anything beyond the subjective?

I'm not talking about "my" rosary or "your" rosary, which are voluntary and can have whatever mysteries we like.

I'm talking about capital-T, capital-R "The Rosary."

Do you understand the difference? I'm not sure how to make it any clearer to you.

As soon as JPII "suggests" that five new mysteries be added to "The Rosary," it is done, finished, accomplished.

New, 20-mystery books will have to be churned out. New 20-mystery art will have to be churned out. The old ones are no longer sufficient.

Forget about reading Saint Louis de Montefort. Even Freepers think that his rosary had a "huge gaping hole" in it and was "missing something" -- it's obsolete and unusable.

And before you tell me that the pope praises de Montefort in his encyclical -- that strikes me as the sort of praise a boss gives a retiree as he hands him a gold watch and walks him to the door and puts him out to pasture. "You did wonderful work, but we don't need you anymore."

I suspect this encyclical was also a ploy to create a whole new slew of rosary books that do not mention Our Lady of Fatima. After all, Cardinal Ratzinger has "explained" to us that "Fatima is entirely in the past." So why should the new phenomenological 20-mystery books dwell on the "entirely fullfilled" Fatima, except maybe in passing?

Now "my" private rosary of 15 mysteries may still find solace in de Montefort -- but I recognize that "my" rosary is an obsolete model. Just as much as Jay Leno's car may have a running board or tail fins; he happily drives it, but it is an obsolete model.

For "The Rosary" now has 20 mysteries, and all previous literature and artwork is henceforth obsolete and unusable.

[Dajjal]

OBSOLETE ROSARY ART

The Fifteen Mysteries and the Virgin of the Rosary
Netherlandish Painter (possibly Goswijn van der Weyden, active by 1491, died after 1538), ca. 1515–20

[Dajjal]

"This is why I use the word obsolescence. The pope suggests five “new” mysteries, and suddenly someone stops even saying the “dusty, old” fifteen mysteries any more."
I disagree - I don't think anyone will "suddenly stop" saying the other mysteries - I certainly haven't.

>I LOVE the new Mysteries of Light. I say them everyday.
>50 posted on 11/10/2002 8:47 PM PST by Lady In Blue
>

I read Lady In Blue as saying that she no longer says the other fifteen.