Burial Box of St. James (A Catholic Perspective)

Catholic Answers ^ | Oct 22, 2002 | James Akin

[Cleburne]

No, it implies that we will no longer need to "hold fast", as our faith shall be turned to seeing- and we shall be perfected, so that even if we did not see, our faith would be so strong that there would be no need to "hold fast": for we could not let go!

[Irisshlass]

Did Mary sit on the Mercy seat and judge the people?Is that where she sat to talk to the people of Israel? It is blasphmy...and again not to the point..Do you believe like the Mormons that God had sex with Mary and she became his wife for eternity? Why would God have made her guilty of bigamy ?

Do you have to make her a god to justify her life, her holiness or purpose?

I'm not making her into a God...you are...I would suggest reading the OT on the Ark of the Convenant...

The Ark was a visible sign of God's presence and protection...Mary was a visible sign of God's presence..Our Sacarments, Eurcharist are visible signs..

[Siobhan]

Jesus is her firstborn son because that is important if you are a Jew. The firstborn son must be taken to the Temple et cetera even if there are no more children.

The real point is that no one in the subapostolic era or the centuries following support your personal opinions of Scripture with regard to St. Joseph or Mary, the Virgin Mother of God. Perhaps you wish to claim you have received a revelation like Joseph Smith?

[Irisshlass]

I disagree..hold fast...our belief in Christ...doesn't mean till he comes we no longer believe..

[Irisshlass]

Hey Siobhan...good to see you :) I have to go as well...can you and others lend me a helping hand? Thanks..God Bless..

[RnMomof7]

\??ill be leaving in a minute..and I say this not out of pride but by the grace of God .I can clean your clock with teaching on the typeology of EVERYTHING in Moses's temple...including the ark...your church wants Mary to be equal with God ..so they have moved Him out of the Holy of Holies and moved her in.

That fits well with Catholic theology I guess because when Jesus died the veil that seperated the Holy of Holies from the people..the veil that only the High Priest could go behind once a year to offer sacrifices wae torn in two ..indicating that there was no longer a veil between God and man ..man could approach God directly..

You guys think that the rent veil means you can now go to Mary I guess..the fact she was still alive means little

Irish, Mary can not and does not save you or judge you ...She had to stand in judgement just as we do..

[Irisshlass]

when Jesus died the veil that seperated the Holy of Holies from the people..the veil that only the High Priest could go behind once a year to offer sacrifices wae torn in two

I'm not denying that..Who is Jesus?...Try reading Jermiah too..:)

your church wants Mary to be equal with God ...you say that...we don't believe that..

[Siobhan]

I can't stay either. But you've been faithful and wonderful. God bless.

[Siobhan]

The Catholic Church does not make Mary equal to God. If you think that, perhaps your god is too small.

[perform_to_strangers]

Could you expand on what you consider the meaning of privily to be? I looked it up in Merriam-Webster online and got this:

Main Entry: 1privy
Pronunciation: 'pri-vE
Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle English prive, from Old French privé, from Latin privatus private
Date: 14th century
1 a : PRIVATE, WITHDRAWN b : SECRET
2 : belonging or relating to a person in one's individual rather than official capacity
3 : admitted as one sharing in a secret (privy to the conspiracy)
- priv·i·ly /-v&-lE/ adverb

[perform_to_strangers]

Hello again, RNMom.

I really don't want to have my clock cleaned, but I'm puzzled by what you're saying. I can't see anything in calling Mary the new ark that sets her equal to God. God sits on the mercy seat,he isn't the seat itself. As I see it, calling Mary the ark is to say that she is the box which carried the Lord, and upon which the Spirit rested. An object, not a God.

[The_Reader_David]

It is very heartening to see archeology confirming the Orthodox Christian account of Our Lord's family history. In the East, the Proto-Evangelium of James is regarded as trustworthy in terms of the family history of the Theotokos, St. James the Brother-of-the-Lord, St. Joseph the Betrothed and Our Lord, this despite obvious gnostic accretions to the childhood narratives concerning Our Lord Jesus Christ.

The unusual ossuary inscription titling James bar-Joseph as the "brother of Jesus" is fully in keeping with the teachings of Holy Tradition that James was worthy of the title "Brother of the Lord" because he was the only one of St. Joseph's sons by his deceased wife Salome to be willing to share his inheritance with his stepbrother Jesus. In the traditional account, the betrothal of the aged widower Joseph to the Blessed Virgin was a way of supporting her vow of perpetual virginity.

Orthodox icons of the Flight into Egypt show the aged Joseph leading an ass bearing the Theotokos and the Christ child, with a young man, St. James, walking beside them--another way in which he proved brother indeed to Christ.

I hope this find will allow our separated Latin betheren to speak with one voice with us Orthodox in dealing with protestants who deny the title Ever-Virgin confirmed by the Fifth Ecumenical Council. We should have no more of the "cousin" nonsense started by St. Jerome.

[narses]

Ping.

[sockmonkey]

So, if this was The James, wouldn't it have said Bishop of Jerusalem on the ossuary-since that was a really big deal?

[drstevej]

Which is the more notable title? Brother of Jesus or Bishop of Jerusalem?

[Aquinasfan]

"You will be with child and give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus. He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David, and he will reign over the house of Jacob forever; his kingdom will never end."

"How will this be," Mary asked the angel, "since I am a virgin?"

Does Mary's response sound a bit strange to you considering that she was getting married?

[Aquinasfan]

"Further, where in Scripture does it say Joseph demanded that "right?"

Where in scripture does it say he wouldn't?

1 Corinthians 7:5
"Do not deprive each other except by mutual consent and for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer."

John Paul II puts St. Paul's remark into context:

"In Egypt there was a community of women who, associated with the Essene spirituality, observed continence. These women, the Therapeutae, belonging to a sect described by Philo of Alexandria (De Vita Contemplativa, 21-90), were dedicated to contemplation and sought wisdom.

It does not seem that Mary ever knew about these Jewish religious groups which practiced the ideal of celibacy and virginity. But the fact that John the Baptist probably lived a celibate life and that in the community of his disciples it was held in high esteem would support the supposition that Mary's choice of virginity belonged to this new cultural and religious context.

...Thus it should be maintained that Mary was guided to the ideal of virginity by an exceptional inspiration of that same Holy Spirit who, in the course of the Church's history, will spur many women to the way of virginal consecration.

The singular presence of grace in Mary's life leads to the conclusion that the young girl was committed to virginity. Filled with the Lord's exceptional gifts from the beginning of her life, she was oriented to a total gift of self--body and soul--to God, in the offering of herself as a virgin.

In addition, her aspiration to the virginal life was in harmony with that "poverty" before God which the Old Testament holds in high esteem. Fully committing herself to this path, Mary also gives up motherhood, woman's personal treasure, so deeply appreciated in Israel. Thus she "stands out among the poor and humble of the Lord, who confidently hope for and receive salvation from him" (Lumen gentium, n. 55). However, presenting herself to God as poor and aiming only at spiritual fruitfulness, the fruit of divine love, at the moment of the Annunciation, Mary discovers that the Lord has transformed her poverty into riches: she will be the Virgin Mother of the Son of the Most High. Later she will also discover that her motherhood is destined to extend to all men, whom the Son came to save (cf. Catechism of the Catholic Church, n. 501)."

Our Lady Intended to Remain a Virgin
Pope John Paul II
General Audience, July 24, 1996

[RnMomof7]

The point is that the renting of the veil was a VERY significant symbol by God

Untill we were Justified by the death of Christ we (men) could not go into the presence of God..NOW men could go to God directly..the shekhina glory of God met with Israel from the Mercy seat..that is How they knew he was with them..The entire temple was typeology ...the candlesticks ,the lavor, the altars the horns on it..EVERYTHING pointed to our salvation by Christ.

By making the ark Mary it makes her god..Did Mary fulfill the Law? Was she a priest (the sign that the flowering rod demonstrated) Is she the Bread of Life?

I have read Jermiah:>) And it moved me not to pray to Mary or ascribe the charactor or the power of God to her:>))

[RnMomof7]

The Catholic Church does not make Mary equal to God. If you think that, perhaps your god is too small.

I do not believe MOST Catholics do (some freepers seem to though)

The veil is rent..you can go directly to God with your petitions..you may approach the throne of God boldly..There is one mediator between God and man and that mediator is Christ Jesus

I love Mary..I think she was given to us as a role model...but she is not my savior, my mediator or my God

I used to belong to a Catholic organization where I would meet with with other Catholics and we would discuss how God was working in our lives..Not long before I realized I could no longer stay I went to the meeting and sat in a group where the name of Christ was never said..all they discussed was Mary and the rosary .I never returned to the meetings.

I do not believe that Mary desires the glory due her son..

[RnMomof7]

LOL Hi ...

I can't see anything in calling Mary the new ark that sets her equal to God. God sits on the mercy seat,he isn't the seat itself. As I see it, calling Mary the ark is to say that she is the box which carried the Lord, and upon which the Spirit rested. An object, not a God.

hey you can call anything, anything you want..but that does not mean that God likes it or accepts it

Moses tabernacle in the wilderness was Gods plan not mans..He got to choose what was in there, how it was made and what it meant..

So you can say Mary was the ark if you want to..but God hates you changing His words and His plans and His message

Are you saying that the ritual (that pre figures Christ) was actually TO Mary?

Leviticus 16
The Day of Atonement

1 The LORD spoke to Moses after the death of the two sons of Aaron who died when they approached the LORD .
2 The LORD said to Moses: "Tell your brother Aaron not to come whenever he chooses into the Most Holy Place behind the curtain in front of the atonement cover on the ark, or else he will die, because I appear in the cloud over the atonement cover.
3 "This is how Aaron is to enter the sanctuary area: with a young bull for a sin offering and a ram for a burnt offering.
4 He is to put on the sacred linen tunic, with linen undergarments next to his body; he is to tie the linen sash around him and put on the linen turban. These are sacred garments; so he must bathe himself with water before he puts them on.
5 From the Israelite community he is to take two male goats for a sin offering and a ram for a burnt offering.
6 "Aaron is to offer the bull for his own sin offering to make atonement for himself and his household.
7 Then he is to take the two goats and present them before the LORD at the entrance to the Tent of Meeting.
8 He is to cast lots for the two goats-one lot for the LORD and the other for the scapegoat. [1]
9 Aaron shall bring the goat whose lot falls to the LORD and sacrifice it for a sin offering.
10 But the goat chosen by lot as the scapegoat shall be presented alive before the LORD to be used for making atonement by sending it into the desert as a scapegoat.
11 "Aaron shall bring the bull for his own sin offering to make atonement for himself and his household, and he is to slaughter the bull for his own sin offering.
12 He is to take a censer full of burning coals from the altar before the LORD and two handfuls of finely ground fragrant incense and take them behind the curtain.
13 He is to put the incense on the fire before the LORD , and the smoke of the incense will conceal the atonement cover above the Testimony, so that he will not die.
14 He is to take some of the bull's blood and with his finger sprinkle it on the front of the atonement cover; then he shall sprinkle some of it with his finger seven times before the atonement cover.
15 "He shall then slaughter the goat for the sin offering for the people and take its blood behind the curtain and do with it as he did with the bull's blood: He shall sprinkle it on the atonement cover and in front of it.
16 In this way he will make atonement for the Most Holy Place because of the uncleanness and rebellion of the Israelites, whatever their sins have been. He is to do the same for the Tent of Meeting, which is among them in the midst of their uncleanness.
17 No one is to be in the Tent of Meeting from the time Aaron goes in to make atonement in the Most Holy Place until he comes out, having made atonement for himself, his household and the whole community of Israel.
18 "Then he shall come out to the altar that is before the LORD and make atonement for it. He shall take some of the bull's blood and some of the goat's blood and put it on all the horns of the altar.
19 He shall sprinkle some of the blood on it with his finger seven times to cleanse it and to consecrate it from the uncleanness of the Israelites.
20 "When Aaron has finished making atonement for the Most Holy Place, the Tent of Meeting and the altar, he shall bring forward the live goat.
21 He is to lay both hands on the head of the live goat and confess over it all the wickedness and rebellion of the Israelites-all their sins-and put them on the goat's head. He shall send the goat away into the desert in the care of a man appointed for the task.
22 The goat will carry on itself all their sins to a solitary place; and the man shall release it in the desert.
23 "Then Aaron is to go into the Tent of Meeting and take off the linen garments he put on before he entered the Most Holy Place, and he is to leave them there.
24 He shall bathe himself with water in a holy place and put on his regular garments. Then he shall come out and sacrifice the burnt offering for himself and the burnt offering for the people, to make atonement for himself and for the people.
25 He shall also burn the fat of the sin offering on the altar.
26 "The man who releases the goat as a scapegoat must wash his clothes and bathe himself with water; afterward he may come into the camp.
27 The bull and the goat for the sin offerings, whose blood was brought into the Most Holy Place to make atonement, must be taken outside the camp; their hides, flesh and offal are to be burned up.
28 The man who burns them must wash his clothes and bathe himself with water; afterward he may come into the camp.
29 "This is to be a lasting ordinance for you: On the tenth day of the seventh month you must deny yourselves [2] and not do any work-whether native-born or an alien living among you-
30 because on this day atonement will be made for you, to cleanse you. Then, before the LORD , you will be clean from all your sins.
31 It is a sabbath of rest, and you must deny yourselves; it is a lasting ordinance.
32 The priest who is anointed and ordained to succeed his father as high priest is to make atonement. He is to put on the sacred linen garments
33 and make atonement for the Most Holy Place, for the Tent of Meeting and the altar, and for the priests and all the people of the community.
34 "This is to be a lasting ordinance for you: Atonement is to be made once a year for all the sins of the Israelites."

And it was done, as the LORD commanded Moses.

The ark had the Law , a reminder of the Judgement and the grace and mercy of the Father

It had the manna .(The bread of life)

Moses said, "This is what the Lord has commanded: 'Take an omer of manna and keep it for the generations to come, so they can see the bread I gave you to eat in the desert when I brought you out of Egypt.'"
So Moses said to Aaron, "Take a jar and put an omer of manna in it. Then place it before the Lord to be kept for the generations to come."

A reminder of the provision and grace of God As the Lord commanded Moses, Aaron put the manna in front of the Testimony, that it might be kept.

God ordered the sign of the priesthood of Arron and the type of the priesthood of Chrsit in the ark

Numbers 17 10 The LORD said to Moses, "Put back Aaron's staff in front of the Testimony, to be kept as a sign to the rebellious. This will put an end to their grumbling against me, so that they will not die."

The Tabernacle of Moses..