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To: Joshua
"Further, where in Scripture does it say Joseph demanded that "right?"

Where in scripture does it say he wouldn't?

1 Corinthians 7:5
"Do not deprive each other except by mutual consent and for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer."

John Paul II puts St. Paul's remark into context:

"In Egypt there was a community of women who, associated with the Essene spirituality, observed continence. These women, the Therapeutae, belonging to a sect described by Philo of Alexandria (De Vita Contemplativa, 21-90), were dedicated to contemplation and sought wisdom.

It does not seem that Mary ever knew about these Jewish religious groups which practiced the ideal of celibacy and virginity. But the fact that John the Baptist probably lived a celibate life and that in the community of his disciples it was held in high esteem would support the supposition that Mary's choice of virginity belonged to this new cultural and religious context.

...Thus it should be maintained that Mary was guided to the ideal of virginity by an exceptional inspiration of that same Holy Spirit who, in the course of the Church's history, will spur many women to the way of virginal consecration.

The singular presence of grace in Mary's life leads to the conclusion that the young girl was committed to virginity. Filled with the Lord's exceptional gifts from the beginning of her life, she was oriented to a total gift of self--body and soul--to God, in the offering of herself as a virgin.

In addition, her aspiration to the virginal life was in harmony with that "poverty" before God which the Old Testament holds in high esteem. Fully committing herself to this path, Mary also gives up motherhood, woman's personal treasure, so deeply appreciated in Israel. Thus she "stands out among the poor and humble of the Lord, who confidently hope for and receive salvation from him" (Lumen gentium, n. 55). However, presenting herself to God as poor and aiming only at spiritual fruitfulness, the fruit of divine love, at the moment of the Annunciation, Mary discovers that the Lord has transformed her poverty into riches: she will be the Virgin Mother of the Son of the Most High. Later she will also discover that her motherhood is destined to extend to all men, whom the Son came to save (cf. Catechism of the Catholic Church, n. 501)."

Our Lady Intended to Remain a Virgin
Pope John Paul II
General Audience, July 24, 1996


57 posted on 10/28/2002 4:57:55 AM PST by Aquinasfan
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To: Aquinasfan
How is that revelant to your salvation?
61 posted on 10/28/2002 8:16:59 AM PST by RnMomof7
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To: Aquinasfan
"1 Corinthians 7:5 "Do not deprive each other except by mutual consent and for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer." John Paul II puts St. Paul's remark into context:"

A better way to put this would be that he pulled it out of context.

""In Egypt there was a community of women who, associated with the Essene spirituality, observed continence. These women, the Therapeutae, belonging to a sect described by Philo of Alexandria (De Vita Contemplativa, 21-90), were dedicated to contemplation and sought wisdom. "

Were these woman married? If not it has nothing to do with Mary

"It does not seem that Mary ever knew about these Jewish religious groups which practiced the ideal of celibacy and virginity. But the fact that John the Baptist probably lived a celibate life and that in the community of his disciples it was held in high esteem would support the supposition that Mary's choice of virginity belonged to this new cultural and religious context. "

I want to get this straight. He admits Mary knew nothing of this group. He also assumes that John was celibate. Now since his assumption of John's celibacy seems to be in vogue surely Mary followed.
Great reasoning

I love the sentence about John. He uses the words "fact" and "probably" in the same sentence. Was it a fact or probably? Was it probably a fact or in fact it was probably?

"...Thus it should be maintained that Mary was guided to the ideal of virginity by an exceptional inspiration of that same Holy Spirit who, in the course of the Church's history, will spur many women to the way of virginal consecration. "

You think JP could give us a rough idea how many married woman the Holy Spirit inspired to this life of virginal consecration?

I'm not going to bother refuting the rest of this garbage.

Jp makes an assumption and from this assumptiuon gives his take on the assumption.

The sad part is that he does this in the context of interpreting scripture.

" 1 Cor 7:5-6 5 Do not deprive each other except by mutual consent and for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer. Then come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control. 6 I say this as a concession, not as a command. (NIV) "

Paul is not talking about a lifetime of abstinence in this passage as JP has tried to make it. He is using it in the context of a fast. The rest of the verse, which he happened to leave out, says to come together again. How does he get a lifetime of virginity from this verse?

Someone in the Vatican should take the paper and pencil away from this guy and limit his duties to waving at the crowds from his balcony.

"You will be with child and give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus. He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David, and he will reign over the house of Jacob forever; his kingdom will never end." "

"How will this be," Mary asked the angel, "since I am a virgin?" Does Mary's response sound a bit strange to you considering that she was getting married? "

Yes it does. I'm sure any engaged to be married virgin, who has an Angel appear telling her she is going to bear God's Son, wouldn't question it at all.

I'm sure if we asked JP to explain he could find us a group of Essene woman who spent their whole life preparing to conceive God's Son

BTW I'm still waiting for your explanation on Luke 2:22-24 on Mary being without sin.

84 posted on 10/28/2002 8:26:11 PM PST by Joshua
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