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Outreach by the people xzins not the church..VBS and a good Sunday school are ministries to children..you do not expect them to grow your church much..it is foundation laying ( My younger kids went to a UMC VBS and sundays school for a few years)..We never joined...

Outreach services are not the same as individuals being responsible for evangelization...Soup kitchens..food pantries...and even basketball is FULFILLING the gospel..it is the expectation that is a function of the church.. not to grow numbers..but to be obedient to the gospel (can you see the different focus I have in this??)

So often instead of presenting the gospel to a workmate or friend they say "come to church with me" so they Pastor can do it..THAT IS NOT THE FUNCTION of the Pastor..

His "job " is to mature the saints..so THEY can present the gospel themselves

Outreach services are not the same as individuals being responsible for evangelization...Soup kitchens..food pantries...and even basketball is FULFILLING the gospel.

Now that is a good point, Mom. Christians are doing what they should be doing by taking a meal to an elderly shut-in, for example. They are "preaching" through their actions rather than their words.

Sorry, Rn, but I see every program of the church in terms of outreach. All has potential. You might not have joined the church because of VBS, but I know of those who have. You might not have become a Christian because of a youth program, but I know of many who have.

All things to all people to win some. Programs are OK.

Regarding a church service aimed at outreach compared to a church service aimed at discipleship. I guess the question becomes.... would you rather see 25 people saved at your sunday morning church service or 25 people come to a better understanding of some theological premis? Some people limit this scope to the sermon and expect the pastor to carry the ball one way or the other. Let me explain how my church approaches it.

My church is huge... and our pastor is not an evangelist. He can preach evangilistic sermons, but he doesn't very often. Every Sunday we get discipleship sermons. "How to" sermons that teach us about christian living and growth.

Last year my church was #2 in the State of Oklahoma for number of people baptised because of professing faith in Jesus Christ. Even with a pastor that is preaching discipleship sermons. I believe my church has well taught members who can share their faith with people. We have a contemporary music service that attracks "seekers". (much to the disdaine of the older set) :) And then we combine it with a pastor that is deeply rooted in the word and an excellent teacher. So a non-christian attending our church has most likely been invited by one of our 6000 members. That is where the evangelism starts. They hear praise and worship songs like "Shout To The Lord". And then they get a message from the bible teaching us how to live a christian life. And they realize there is a difference. And they receive the full picture that tells them what that difference is.