Posted on 09/30/2002 9:19:01 AM PDT by PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain
VENTURA, Calif. -- Pollster George Barna, known these days as the bearer of bad tidings about the state of Christianity in America, arrived in his office a few minutes late for a 10 a.m. appointment.
His hair was ruffled; his eyes puffy. Shoulders slouched. Being the George Gallup of the conservative evangelical world is a heavy burden for Barna, who often works into the early morning, deciphering numbers generated by his surveys to find church trends.
The 48-year-old author of 30 books, who describes himself as a raging introvert, is a popular national speaker. And he produces enough in-your-face statistics and blunt talk to irritate pastors, cost him business and earn a reputation for having, as one magazine put it, "the gift of discouragement."
His data undercut some of the core beliefs that should, by definition, set evangelicals apart from their more liberal brethren. Findings of his polls show, for example, that:
• The divorce rate is no different for born-again Christians than for those who do not consider themselves religious.
• Only a minority of born-again adults (44 percent) and a tiny proportion of born-again teenagers (9 percent) are certain that absolute moral truth exists.
• Most Christians' votes are influenced more by economic self-interest than by spiritual and moral values.
• Desiring to have a close, personal relationship with God ranks sixth among the 21 life goals tested among born-agains, trailing such desires as "living a comfortable lifestyle."
'Are people's lives being transformed" by Christianity? Barna has asked. "We can't find evidence of a transformation."
Even Barna's toughest critics concede that Barna Research Group's polls carry considerable weight because of his first-rate surveying techniques and his 17-year-long record of tracking church and cultural trends.
His work has been used by major companies (Ford Motor Co. and Walt Disney, for example) and religious organizations such as the Billy Graham Evangelistic Association and World Vision.
"He is the accepted authority on church trends," said Bob Cavin, director of the Texas Baptist Leadership Center. "He gives pastors insight, not only into the effectiveness of the church, but with trends in society that help the pastors with their strategic planning."
Because of his influence, many are watching with interest as Barna branches out from his usual business. He has been preoccupied with quantifying contemporary Christian beliefs, attitudes and practices; comparing them with biblical truths; and delivering the results to pastors, Christian leaders and laity. He said that he once hoped his analyses would be used as building blocks for more relevant churches.
But he decided this year to take a more active role by helping to identify and develop new and better church leaders who will boldly go where their predecessors haven't gone before: to radically revamp the church. He said he believes the process will take decades -- generations -- to complete.
"One of our challenges is to revisit the structures and means through which people experience Christ," Barna said. "People have been talking about developing the 'new church' for the past several decades, but nothing new has been forthcoming."
According to Barna, pastors are great teachers, but not necessarily adept at leadership. To back up his claim, he cited one of his own polls: It showed that only 12 percent of senior pastors say they have the spiritual gift of leadership and 8 percent say they have the gift of evangelism. In contrast, two-thirds say they have the gift of teaching or preaching.
"We, not God, have created a system that doesn't work and that we're reluctant to change."
Barna also is in the early stages of establishing a genuine and appealing Christian presence in secular entities: film, music, media and politics. He has identified these as the institutions that hold the most influence over Americans.
What's needed are "skilled professionals who love Christ and model his ways through their thoughts, words and behavior in enviable and biblically consistent ways," he said.
For Barna, the need for better leadership and better Christian role models in the secular world was underscored by a poll he released this month.
9/11 opportunity lost
The survey showed that the Sept. 11 attacks had virtually no lasting effects on America's faith, despite a 20 percent rise in church attendance during the first few weeks afterward.
"We missed a huge opportunity," he said, adding that, because of their own shallow faith, church regulars needed so much reassurance themselves that they couldn't minister to newcomers.
This kind of comment bothers evangelical Christians.
Mike Regele, author of "The Death of the Church," is one of many who believe the Barna Research Group's statistical work is excellent, but the conclusions drawn by the company's founder are too harsh.
The hypocrisy of Christians, Regele said, "has been a part of the church, probably since the day of Pentecost" and doesn't indicate its collapse.
"It sounds like he's very, very angry at the church," said Regele, a church critic himself who is ultimately an optimist. "There are reasons to be disappointed, but scripture never said we'd be perfect. We shouldn't view the whole institution as a failure."
With each new Barna poll or book, the attacks begin again: He's too negative; he has it in for pastors; he's arrogant.
The criticism "would affect any human being," said Barna, a husband and father of two. "We all want to be loved and accepted by others, but we also have a higher calling to which we each must be true."
Barna said he has learned painfully that giving advice on how to revitalize churches in America is a hugely complex proposition that doesn't fit well into sound bites. He has learned to be more guarded.
Although his statistics often show self-described Christians living lives no different from those of atheists, Barna's faith never has wavered.
"The issue isn't whether Jesus or Christianity is real," he said. "The issue is, are Americans willing to put Christ first in their lives?
No man is WITHOUT FAULT All men deserve the wrath of God ...
Since "all have sinned and come short of the glory of God" (Romans 3:23), there is no one who has the right to freedom from God's wrath on the basis of his own innocence.
I don't have a god. Is that what you want to hear?
Just because God is capable of doing anything does not mean He is compelled to do anything you desire Him to.
Dave you need to read Romans 1,2 and 3...that will answer your question...NO one can keep the law of the Jews or the knowlege of God in his heart perfectly (the only way you could get into heaven) That is why God sent a Savior that COULD keep the law of the Jews and the laws of the conscience PERFECTLY .. He could then stand in our place and take our just punishment for us
So no Jew ever got saved? Why can't an aborigine be considered under the sme rules as Jews before the coming of Christ? To them, being in ignorance, it is like Christ never came. Or do you need to know that God condemns someone?
SD
I am saying that those who denigrate the evangelistic fervor of someone just because that someone is an Arminian or Calvinist are guilty of gross mischaracterizations.
You mean there's no donkeys in heaven?
especially no New Jersey donkeys, huh? :>)
And He does not have to be the god you make Him in your mind either Dave
Jhn 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
So no Jew ever got saved? Why can't an aborigine be considered under the sme rules as Jews before the coming of Christ? To them, being in ignorance, it is like Christ never came. Or do you need to know that God condemns someone?
Doesnt matter what I think is "fair" it only matters what God says
Jhn 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Dave why did Christ come if He was not esential? Why send missionaries if He is not essential..it would be kinder to let them stay heathans and enjoy their sin and get to heaven anyway...Why did Jesus say GO?
This is not so, for man is to change from the carnal mind to the
***
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
But if we allow the Lord to work through us we are able to be removed from condamnation to the state of grace. But we too must desire to do his will. Which when man dedicates his will in accord with the Lord's will, by doing the will/work of the Lord.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Doesnt matter what I think is "fair" it only matters what God says
Jhn 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
You didn't answer the question. Are there no Jews who got saved? If there were Jews who got saved before Jesus came to earth, how did they get saved?
Dave why did Christ come if He was not esential? Why send missionaries if He is not essential..it would be kinder to let them stay heathans and enjoy their sin and get to heaven anyway...Why did Jesus say GO?
As usual, you take what others say and make it more extreme, in order to allow you to triumph. Is there an honest Calvinist in existence?
I didn't say Jesus wasn't essential. Stop lying.
SD
Uhhhh..... Rochester......
One minor point of inquiry... why are you reading "pagan" into the passage?? While we read about God overriding Abimelech's choices, there's nothing about Abimelech being a "pagan" in the passage.
It's true that Abimelech was King over the Philistines of Gerar at that point in time, but the Scripture does not indicate that by this time the Philistines of Gerar had descended into Paganism. Remember, Abraham lived in very great antiquity, only about four to six centuries after the Flood... it is entirely possible that many peoples had not yet completely abandoned the Faith of Noah by this early stage in history. The Bible certainly suggests that the Philistines of Gerar, at this time, were still at least nominally believers in the Faith of Noah:
I don't see anything about Abimelech and the Philistines of Gerar being "pagans" (at this point in history) in this passage. If I have missed it, you are welcome to point it out to me; but I don't think that we should be reading "pagan" into the passage if it is not there.
SD
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