The Pope, the Mass and the Society of St. Pius X

Una Voce ^

[narses]

The Pope, the Mass and the Society of St. Pius X

Father Pierre Blet, SJ, Professor of Church History at the Gregorian University, celebrated for his defence of Pope Pius XII against the charge of anti-semitism, has given an interview in which he made some interesting comments apropos relations between Rome and the Society of Saint Pius X and the attitude of Rome to the Traditional Mass. This interview was published in the July-August 2002 issue of the journal of Una Voce France. Father Blet considers that there are at present indications that an entente may be reached. Father Blet noted that members of the Society had been very warmly received during the Holy Year, but that things have slowed down a little since then due principally to the question of accepting Vatican II. He added that "this was not an impediment given that the Council had not promulgated any binding dogmatic definition. Everyone therefore has the right to examine what he feels able to accept..."

Where the problem of the Mass is concerned, certain cardinals of the Curia, and not the least among them, would be willing to accept the Mass of St. Pius V. Some of them have celebrated it publicly. Father Blet then made public some information that has remain confidential until now: "The Pope himself celebrated this Mass during his recent vacation." He also reported the suggestion of a cardinal who remarked that in a town in the Middle-East where he had been a missionary the Mass is celebrated in a dozen different rites. "Under these circumstances, he asked, why could there not be two rites in the West?" Father Blet added: "The Curia is ready to make concessions in this matter."

[narses]

Prayers are being answered.

[sinkspur]

"Under these circumstances, he asked, why could there not be two rites in the West?"

Because Williamson and Fellay feel that a separate rite would relegate them and the Tridentine Rite to a second-class status.

They don't want a separate rite; they want to supplant the Novus Ordo.

[narses]

And Abp. Weakland and his minions want to eliminate the Tridentine Rite. So what? A Universal Indult is coming. Smile Sink. It is a good thing.

[ELS]

A bump for The Mass of the Ages.

[Antoninus]

A Universal Indult is coming. Smile Sink. It is a good thing.

I'm smiling. It is indeed a very good thing. I've read Fr. Blet's book on Pius XII -- it's excellent, by the way.

[Loyalist]

A Universal Indult is coming. Smile Sink. It is a good thing.

I pray too that it's coming, but hopes have been dashed before.

I don't think too many priests and lay leaders of sinkspur's generation will be smiling; they've invested everything in the revolution.

[sinkspur]

A Universal Indult is coming. Smile Sink. It is a good thing.

I doubt that. If JPII had wanted to do a universal indult, he would have done it already.

[narses]

LOL. He will do it when the time is right. Very soon. It ends the SSPX issue. It empowers the younger generation of priests. It harms only those like Weakland who HATE a valid Rite of the Church.

[sinkspur]

It ends the SSPX issue.

It doesn't. Williamson and Fellay will find something else to object to, namely, the acceptance of Vatican II.

The SSPX doesn't WANT a reunion.

[narses]

So what? The issue that they hang their hat on is the Mass. If every priest everywhere could offer the Tridentine Mass, they either fade away or not. Besides, a Universal Indult was their only significant request. Granting it ends all argument of substance.

[sockmonkey]

I doubt that. If JPII had wanted to do a universal indult, he would have done it already.

I think Sinkspur is probably right. I don't like saying that, either.

When I hear all the talk of social justice, and rights of the oppressed, and poor. When I see those in the Church who are bending over backwards to embrace every lunatic fringe under the face of the Sun, I wonder how come there's no liturgical justice, and there are no rights for those who have been forced to accept a Mass whose language I find anything but spiritually uplifting.

My Priest used to do the Tridentine Mass, but the Bishop pulled the indult. I go to the Anglican Use Mass, and even if the there was a universal indult, I would continue to attend the AU. My Priest does the NO in Latin, but when I attend that Mass, and I "think" in Latin, the words seem like a pale ghost of something that once was..not sure if that makes sense, but I hope it does.

[Theresa]

"He added that "this was not an impediment given that the Council had not promulgated any binding dogmatic definition. Everyone therefore has the right to examine what he feels able to accept..."

Is this right? Somebody please 'splain.

[Theresa]

It is fine with me. I like both masses.

[ultima ratio]

Your comment is nonsense. The two-rite solution would be acceptable. I'm certain if the Tridentine Mass were approved, its attendance would quadruple within a few years. There has been a culture war whirling around the imposition--brutally--of the Novus Ordo and an attempt to destroy traditional Catholicism. That was at the heart of the dispute over Econe. If Rome stops attacking and makes peace, why should we not also stop fighting? But traditionalists would need guarantees Rome will not go back on its word. There is a lot of mistrust on both sides and Rome has all the power. What SSPX has is the ancient faith.

By the way, the traditional Mass is not exactly the Mass of Pius V. He only codified it. It goes back to the fifth century, so it is much much older than is generally understood. Its development was organic and goes back at least 1500 years. Novus Ordo, by contrast, was fabricated by Roman bureaucrats (and six Protestant advisors) in the late sixties and is barely three decades old.

[maryz]

Its development was organic and goes back at least 1500 years.

Someone (I think it was Christopher Derrick) has a lovely passage in one of his books comparing the old Mass to the ancestral family home, filled with a variety of beautiful and meaningful objects collected over generations, to the new Mass -- which, well, isn't.

[Domestic Church]

Alleluia!!!!! AMDG!!!!! (Don't put the Rosaries down until it has happened.)

[ultima ratio]

Yours is a beautiful comparison. When we attend the traditional Mass, we can be sure we are going back more than a thousand years when priests performed the same formal rubrics. The sensibility that informs them is an ancient one that links us up with our own past. The old Mass can even take us back to remote apostolic times with prayers like the Kyrie. How can this compare with the informality of a brand new Mass, fabricated in our own day?

Let me put it another way. The attempt by the Church to "appeal" to the faithful by instituting a more familiar and folksy Mass, by the having the priest face his assembly for a more friendly interaction, by the use of sentimental music and modern instruments, and by a hundred other innovations designed to make the liturgy more "relevant", is doomed to failure. So is the attempt to have the faithful "participate" more fully by their incessant "responding". Catholics don't go to Mass to find relevance or to be amused or to be noisy--they live in a world of vcr's and dvd's and movies and rock music and television. They are drowning in noise and activity. They need a sense of the sacred and a place of some silence in which to find God. The old Mass give them this respite from the world.

[maryz]

Over the weekend, I'll try to find the passage I was referring to get it to you.

(The rest of your post reminds me of a line in Why Catholics Can't Sing -- much of which I enjoyed -- to the effect that the new Mass itself actually becomes a distraction from the Mass.)