Posted on 09/11/2002 6:13:12 PM PDT by RnMomof7
What is predestination?
by R. C. Sproul ------------------------------------------------------------------------
When the Bible speaks of predestination, it speaks of God's sovereign involvement in certain things before they happen. He chooses in advance certain things to take place. For example, he predestined creation. Before God created the world, he decided to do it.
Usually when people think of predestination, they think about whether or not somebody was hit by an automobile on a given day because God had decided ahead of time that that should happen on that day.
Theologically, the principal issue of predestination in the Bible has to do with God selecting people for salvation beforehand. The Bible clearly does teach that somehow God chooses people for salvation before they're even born. Virtually every Christian church believes that, because this concept is so clearly taught in Scripture.
Paul refers to Jacob and Esau. Before they were even born, before they had done any good or evil, God decreed in advance that the elder would serve the younger: "Jacob have I loved; Esau have I hated." The point there is that God had chosen certain benefits for one of those two before they were even born.
The real debate is, On what basis does God predestine? We know that he predestines, but why does he predestine, and what is the basis for his choices? Many Christians believe that God knows in advance what people are going to do, what choices they're going to make, and what activities they're going to be involved in. As he looks through the corridor of time and knows what choices you will make, for example, he knows that you will hear the gospel. He knows whether you will say yes or no. If he knows that you are going to say yes, then he chooses you for salvation on the basis of his prior knowledge. I don't hold that position. I think that God does this sovereignly, not arbitrarily, not whimsically. The only basis I see for predestination in the Bible is the good pleasure of his own will. The only other reason is to honor his only begotten Son. The reason for his selection is not in me and not in you and not in some foreseen good or evil, but in his own sovereignty.
Reprinted by permission of Ligonier Ministries from "Now That's A Good Question" by R.C. Sproul.----------------
God is not dependent upon my actions to determine his next step. I never said that. I never implied it. I don't believe it.
He knows everything that has happened or will happened. His foreknowledge of events, however, is not dependent upon my inability to exercise my own free will or his inability to grant such free will to man.
To make God's foreknowledge dependent upon his controling everyone's actions is to reduce God's omnipotence to knowing only those things that he causes. (which consequently makes him the cause of all sin).
That is a significant reduction of God's sovereignty and not an affirmation of it.
You needed to start earlier.. Jhn 6:64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.
Jhn 13:18 I speak not of you all: I know whom I have chosen: but that the scripture may be fulfilled, He that eateth bread with me hath lifted up his heel against me.
Jhn 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
PREDESTINATION!
Yes it is Marlowe.
Because by your reckoning God has had to take into account every act of every man before he could make a decision or declare a prophecy..in effect man has controlled God and prophecy .God has simply reacted to what he knew man would do..
To make God's foreknowledge dependent upon his controling everyone's actions is to reduce God's omnipotence to knowing only those things that he causes. (which consequently makes him the cause of all sin).
No the only thing that restrains the evil in the heart of man is God general grace..God does not have to make man sin..that is all man wants to do..
What God does know is how he made each man .
Another poster wanted to discuss Judas..do I think that God made Judas betray Jesus ? NO..Was God in complete control of those events YES...
God knew that Judas had a pervasive sin of greed in his heart , because He had made him .Gods grace restrained that evil intent untill the moment came for the plan of God to be fulfilled..God removed that restraining force of grace and Judas acted EXACTLY as it was his desire and his will to act. God did not force him..yet God was in complete control.
Did you try the link I freepmailed you?
We hae yet to discuss salvation let alone perserverence
I thought Satan was bound and gagged and tied up somewhere. Or was that another thread?
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