Miracle Cure Brings Sainthood to Polish Nun (Divine Mercy)

Detroit News via the Washington Post ^ | April 26, 2000 | Carlyle Murphy

[restornu]

The Father, the Son, the Holy Spirt are one.

3 Individual personage that are "ONE IN THE WILL OF THE FATHER!":)

[BibChr]

Very well-put.

Dan

[JMJ333]

How do I violate my own principle? I have an authority that put the scripture together and I also have apostolic tradition. I use the RC's teachings on the subject. That is totally different than making it up for yourself.

And I said before that Jesus condemned some of their practices, but not tradition outright. You simply cannot point to any place in scripture that says it is the only thing allowed for teaching.

I have to run again and will be back in about 20 minutes.

[MarMema]

I would never want to associate with any church who makes their "raison d'etre" hatred of another sect rather than their love for Jesus Christ

And yet, now more than ever in my lifetime, it seems to me to be important that we Christians reach out to one another with love and tolerance. And especially that we develop some kind of unity between us.

At a time when the gulags of the USSR are not looking so unusual, and beheadings by crazed islamics are becoming commonplace, we would do well to join hands and accept our differences. Twenty years ago I never dreamed I might have to talk to my children about dying for Christ, but today I think it is a distinct possibility.

What we all need to do is practise love for each other as Christ did for the least of those he met. If we cannot love a near stranger on the internet, how can we profess to love God? Let us remember, myself chief among those called to remember this, that Blessed are the Peacemakers.

[the_doc]

Oh, you really are funny!

[RnMomof7]

"Bless the Lord, O you his angels, you mighty ones who do his word, hearkening to the voice of his word! Bless the Lord, all his hosts, his ministers that do his will!" (Psalm 103:20-21, RSV, as below)

This has noting to do with intercession of the dead

Revelation, where we read:
"And another angel came and stood at the altar with a golden censer; and he was given much incense to mingle with the prayers of all the saints upon the golden altar before the throne; and the smoke of the incense rose with the prayers of the saints from the hand of the angel before God." (Revelation 8:3-4)

Angels are NOT dead people they are a seperate creation of God..they are ministering spirits...(really read Hebrews) Their purpose is to worship God and since creation of man minister to us

Hbr 1:14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?

And who are the saints whos prayers they carry?

Those that will be the heirs of Salvation the living Church

Act 9:32 And it came to pass, as Peter passed throughout all [quarters], he came down also to the saints which dwelt at Lydda.

By redefining the word Saints scripture is preverted

[Aliska]

It's not your doing that the thread took an ugly turn. I should have expected it; most times I post something it dries up in a hurry.

I enjoy discussions, even when people disagree, if I don't detect acrimony between the lines.

I found her diary quite interesting, too. It's been awhile since I read it. She thought it interesting what men talk about (remember they had taken in some indigent men and she heard them talking through the wall one night). She didn't know they were such chatterboxes iirc. She was imbued with a real spirit of charity.

[Wrigley]

This thread which started on a very positive note has turned into a hatefest.

Hatefest? Hardly. I see two groups vigorously defending their beliefs. I see no hate.

[drstevej]

***How do I violate my own principle?***

Whenever you go beyond a DIRECT VERBATIM QUOTE you are engaging in private interpretation. By your own principle, you as a lay person do not have this right.

***And I said before that Jesus condemned some of their practices, but not tradition outright.***

The "some of their practices" were those which contradict the Word of God. That's what the verses said and that's what you affirmed.

If the RCC would abandon any and all traditions which contradict the Word of God it would be a significant step forward.

[livius]

If we cannot love a near stranger on the internet, how can we profess to love God?

Very well put! This should be engraved over our computer screens.

[Wrigley]

The Father, the Son, the Holy Spirt are one.

In all.

[drstevej]

"If we canst loveth a near stranger on the internet, how canst we profess to loveth Thee?"

KJV, please!

[Desdemona]

I've stayed out of this, because the saints and their help is not understood very well.

But, if Christ died to give the world eternal life, then those who have gone before us and have lived in His name are living, whether it be in the flesh or not. They are out there. No one is Canonized a saint without a miracle. It is required. If there is a miracle, it is assumed that the individual is with God and God works through them. 99% of the miracles out there are medical. That much has been admitted over the years.

We ask for the saints' intercession when we need an extra voice. Why this needs to be scriptural...it doesn't. With God anything is possible. That doesn't seem to be sinking in.

This is a lovely story. Miracles are always an occasion for rejoicing.

Back to the cave.

[Aliska]

we would do well to join hands and accept our differences.

Very well put! I believe that is what Jesus expects us to do. To do less is to miss the spirit of the gospel entirely, "Love one another as I have loved you".

That is how the intolerance will doubtlessly end. They will put us all to death if they are able. They aren't going to care who prays to saints and who doesn't.

[RnMomof7]

Excellent post OP..thank you

[Codie]

There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch. Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer." (Deut. 18: 10-11 KJV. Verse 11 in the NIV reads, "or casts spells, or who is a medium or spiritist or who consults the dead.")

This passage clearly condemns several pagan practices that were common among the people who inhabited the land that God promised the Israelites.I know not one Catholic who conjures up the dead seeking advice.

If all communication with the deceased is evil, then Jesus did something evil during the Transfiguration.

[CCWoody]

Christianity is above all a mystery, and should be approached as such. It is more than Holy Scripture, which a recording of the events and teachings surrounding the mystery as well as the word of God.

Really, again, this is irrelavent to the discussion. The statement has been made by the RC's here on this thread: "Prayer to the Saints... is Scriptural." Your comment, while strange, doesn't even get to the argument, but entirely avoids it.

Besides, I do have a scripture for you:

• Ephesians 1:7-9 In Him we have redemption through His blood,... which He made to abound toward us in all wisdom and prudence, having made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He purposed in Himself,...

I do so love to read a good mystery!

But to rely completely on Scripture is, to me, like making a great piece of art into a coloring book.

Hmmmm! Adding the teaching of men to the Scripture is like adding a piece of dog poop to the brownie mix. That sure doesn't sound very good now does it.

There are times that Christ spent with the Apostles which are not discussed in the Bible, such as the forty days after Pentecost.

I think that your time line is a bit off. Nevertheless, consider this:

• Acts 1:3 He presented Himself alive after His suffering by many infallible proofs, being seen by them during forty days and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God.

In other words, He was equipping the Apostles for the Apostolic preaching of the gospel of the kingdom of God. Sadly, until they were Baptized with the Holy Spirit, they did not understand what the gospel really is.

• Acts 1:6 "Lord, will You at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?"

Additionally, there are many things in Scripture which I am not aware of protestants doing, such as using incense and fasting. Correct me if I am wrong.

You are corrected. I do fast. And it is a rather perilious thing for me to do as my blood sugar tends to bottom out.

Please give me a specific Biblical example of incense.

The Saints are those who were able to overcome the passions of this world and reach into the next.

Incorrect! The saints are those who know that they have eternal life. Minimally, I'll stay here:

• 1Jo 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life,....

Certainly they are more alive than we are here in this world now.

Well, this is much better than your last post to me where you said that we were dead and they were alive. Nevertheless, I already have eternal life. It really doesn't get any more alive than that, except to be wholly in the presence of the Lord.

There is nothing wrong with involving them in our pursuit of God-pleasing perfection here on earth. As sinners we should avail ourselves of every avenue of assistance we can to become more like Christ.

Well, I don't know about you, but I have already been perfected forever (Heb 10:14). And I look to Jesus, not other men, as He is the One who will complete the good work He began in me. He is the author and finisher of my faith, not some man.

[MarMema]

Whenever you go beyond a DIRECT VERBATIM QUOTE you are engaging in private interpretation. By your own principle, you as a lay person do not have this right.

Your point is a good one. However I think even the Catholics are allowed some degree of private communion with Our Lord. I know that for us it is not this literal, agreeing to abide by the church's Scriptural teachings. It's more like a forest than a group of specific trees.

[SMEDLEYBUTLER]

I know but it's always fun to see those who claim to be "Scripturists" try to refute what Scripture says.