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1 posted on 08/11/2002 1:51:37 PM PDT by NYer
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To: Siobhan; american colleen; sinkspur; Aliska; Lady In Blue; Salvation; Polycarp; narses; ...
DO NOT POST unless you have read the entire sermon and can discuss it intelligibly.
2 posted on 08/11/2002 1:56:09 PM PDT by NYer
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To: NYer
Stand back. Here comes the...never mind. Turn out the lights when you leave.
3 posted on 08/11/2002 3:39:13 PM PDT by gcruse
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To: NYer
We Catholics allow that the Bible is the Word of God..

What an arrogant statement.

4 posted on 08/11/2002 6:20:14 PM PDT by aimhigh
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To: NYer; Theresa; american colleen; Polycarp; Salvation; JMJ333; sinkspur
Quite a number of good and true passages here, but this really says it, IMO:

"Ever since the Sixteenth Century there have been springing up religion upon religion, and churches upon churches, all fighting and quarreling with one another. And all because of the private interpretation of the Bible."

I do have one question. The dates presented here differ with those Fr. S. taught us in New Testament class. Does anyone know or have a source as to what the Vatican scholars have to say regarding when the individual books were written?

Maybe we should learn Greek?

(Ducking out of the way now)
8 posted on 08/11/2002 8:57:34 PM PDT by Desdemona
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To: NYer
….if God has intended that man should learn His religion from a book - the Bible - surely God would have given that book to man; Christ would have given that book to man. Did He do it?

II Timothy 3:
[16] All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness (KJV)

Yes, He did.

Christ did not say, "Sit down and write Bibles and scatter them over the earth, and let every man read his Bible and judge for himself."

II Timothy 2:
[15] Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. (KJV)

Acts 17:
[11] These [the Bereans] were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. (KJV)

Yes, He did.

Ever since the Sixteenth Century there have been springing up religion upon religion, and churches upon churches, all fighting and quarreling with one another.

I sure am glad that there is no fighting and quarreling going on within the Catholic church (SSPX, CMRI, Sedevacantists, modernists, etc.)

The Catholic religion had existed sixty-five years before the Bible was completed, before it was written.

There is no proof of this. There may have been a catholic faith, but not a Catholic faith at the time of the Apostles.

But how did they know what they had to do to save their souls?

Ephesians 4:
[11] And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
[12] For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: (KJV)

There were the OT Scriptures and these different teaching gifts in the church at that time. The revelatory gifts, Prophecy, Knowledge, and Tongues, were given until the NT Scriptures were complete. (I Cor 13:8-10) God did not leave His saints without a Guide.

Was it from the Bible that they learned it? No, because the Bible was not written.

See above. The OT Scriptures were written by this time as well.

And would our Divine Saviour have left His Church for sixty-five years without a teacher, if the Bible is the teacher of man?

John 16:
[13] Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. (KJV)

No one has ever said that Jesus left us without a teacher or that the Bible is our teacher. The Holy Ghost is our teacher and the Bible is His textbook.

Now, my dear friends, none of the Apostles ever read the Bible; not one of them except, perhaps, Saint John. For all of them had died martyrs for the Faith of Jesus Christ and never saw the cover of a Bible. Every one of them died martyrs and heroes for the Church of Jesus before the Bible was completed.

Why does this man continue to give the idea that the Bible is only the NT? The OT Scriptures were available.

In all that time the people did not know what constituted the Bible.

Didn’t they? Weren’t the Epistles in circulation? Weren’t the Gospels in circulation? The people knew, the council, or whatever he is referring to, merely ratified what the churches already knew.

And, therefore, they did not know what constituted the books of the Bible.

Yes, they did.

You would exclaim: "The Lord save us! And can we not go to Heaven without that book?" The answer would be: "No; you must have the Bible and read it."

This is just ridiculous. No one says that you can’t get to Heaven unless you own a Bible.

Yes, but are you sure you have a faithful translation?

Yes.

What a teacher, with thirty thousand errors!

You’d think with 30,000 errors, that this guy could have listed a few.

The Lord save us from such a teacher!

Halfway through this article I am saying the same thing.

You say the Bible is your guide, but you do not know if you have it.

Yes, I do.

14 posted on 08/12/2002 9:32:16 AM PDT by ksen
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To: NYer
how repugnant
50 posted on 08/12/2002 12:02:22 PM PDT by rwfromkansas
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To: NYer
"The Bible, my dear people, is a good book. We Catholics allow that the Bible is the Word of God, the language of inspiration, and every Catholic is exhorted to read the Bible. But good as it is, the Bible, my dear friends, does not explain itself. It is a good book, the Word of God, the language of inspiration, but your explanation of the Bible is not the language of inspiration. Your understanding of the Bible is not inspired - for surely you do not pretend to be inspired!"

I can't express how many blasphemous statements are contained here. Of course we are not inspired, but the Holy Spirit I would say gosh darn is and he is the one that leads us in our knowledge of Scripture, not some priest.

The absolute arrogance contained in the statement that Catholics "allow"....just "allow" that the Bible is the Word of God is appalling. The Bible is not just "a good book." It is THE Good Book.

How sickening to see Christians making the Bible out to be just another book.

53 posted on 08/12/2002 12:06:16 PM PDT by rwfromkansas
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To: NYer
"For fourteen hundred years the world was left without a Bible - not one in ten thousand, not one in twenty thousand, before the art of printing was invented, had the Bible. And would our Divine Lord have left the world without that book if it was necessary to man's salvation? Most assuredly not."

This is an incredibly stupid statement. To say that because God did not have a complete divine revelation for some time, choosing to reveal himself in other ways, it must mean that the Bible doesn't mean much, is just incredibly stupid......just I can't describe how stupid this really is.

And it is heresy.

The Bible is not "necessary" for salvation, as that comes from hearing the Gospel (whether from the Word or hearing the Word preached). But it is God's divine revelation and is very important because everything of the faith comes from it. It is the ultimate book for faith and life and is God's word to man.

58 posted on 08/12/2002 12:11:21 PM PDT by rwfromkansas
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To: NYer
There are so many problems with this sermon, I really don't know where to begin, but this really jumped out at me:
"What did Washington do? He gave the people the Constitution and the Supreme Law, and appointed his Supreme Court and Supreme Judge of the Constitution. And these are to give the true explanation of the Constitution to all the American citizens - all without exception, from the President to the beggar."
The Constitution means what it means. It doesn't mean what people say it means. When the framers wrote down the words of the Constitution, they did so with a particular meaning in mind. Those words have remained unchanged (legitimate constitutional amendments aside), therefore, the meaning has remained unchanged.

Benjamin Franklin once said, "It is every American's right, and obligation, to read and interpret the Constitution for himself." That should not be left up to corrupt government officials. Likewise, interpretation of Scripture should not be left up to the church. Were that the case, there would be no need for anyone to read the Bible - ever. What the church says, goes. So, if another Inquisition were to be held, no one could point to Scripture to say that it was wrong.

I find it interesting that when the Catholic Church defends the supremacy of church tradition, it does so without backing up its claim with Scripture. It points not to the Bible, but to church tradition as proof that church tradition is the way to go. Because of this, there is no solid standard by which anything can be measured. As church tradition changes, so do ideas of right and wrong.

78 posted on 08/12/2002 12:58:24 PM PDT by sheltonmac
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To: NYer
Were the Apostles Christians, I ask you, my dear Protestant friends? You say, "Yes, sir; they were the very founders of Christianity. Now, my dear friends, none of the Apostles ever read the Bible; not one of them except, perhaps, Saint John. For all of them had died martyrs for the Faith of Jesus Christ and never saw the cover of a Bible. Every one of them died martyrs and heroes for the Church of Jesus before the Bible was completed.

Of course they could not have read the Bible as we have it today, But they did have access to old testament scripture. Plus, God used them to write the new testament. How could they read a book that was still in the process of being written?

I had always been told that the Bible was not one book. but a binding of several books/scriptures. the comment "...a good book..." seems to show the problem. The Bible is not just some sort of large Novel, but a binding of several books and scriptures, assembled for us to use to "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. (2 Tim 2:15)"

Considering how apostate churches have become (not just the Catholic church, but many other denominations), I will stick to the Bible and a good Bible teaching church.

246 posted on 08/15/2002 12:08:12 AM PDT by The Bard
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