MAN OF THE SHROUD

Various ^ | August 2002

[NYer]

The Shroud of Turin is a centuries old linen cloth that bears the image of a crucified man. A man that millions believe to be Jesus of Nazareth. Is it really the cloth that wrapped his crucified body, or is it simply a medieval forgery, a hoax perpetrated by some clever artist? Modern, twentieth century science has completed hundreds of thousands of hours of detailed study and intense research on the Shroud. It is, in fact, the single most studied artifact in human history, and we know more about it today than we ever have before. And yet, the controversy still rages.

Arguments against the Shroud's authenticity are prima facia, supported by carbon 14 dating and a prevailing view of the way things are in the world. On the other hand, the case for authenticity is a compelling preponderance of scientific and historic evidence. So daunting is the evidence that we can only wonder if, as  postmodernists suggest, "no such thing as objective truth exists, that historic reality is an inherently enigmatic and endlessly negotiable bundle of free-floating perceptions."1 The alternative is to consider, as C. S. Lewis contends: rare exceptions to nature are possible. 

On this hot and sultry day in August, I decided to post this thread for those who enjoy mystery, adventure and the thrill of discovery. There are many web sites devoted to this topic. I suggest you begin here:

SHROUD OF TURIN

[NYer]

Feast of the Holy Shroud, May 4
This feast is mainly celebrated in Europe since 1506

An Office and Mass "de Sancta Sindone" was formally approved by Julius II in the Bull "Romanus Pontifex" of 25 April, 1506, in the course of which the pope speaks of "that most famous shroud in which our Saviour was wrapped when He lay in the tomb and which is now honourably and devoutly preserved in a silver casket".              (Older Catholic Encyclopedia)

 

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[Desdemona]

I've heard/seen all this before, but it bears repeating. Most people I know, even Catholics, believe it to be a hoax. I don't think so. After working with archival artifacts, I just think that too much is over looked when it's studied, the fire being the big one. The canister melted and it survived. Think about it.

[NYer]

I don't either. Click on the link. If even some of the evidence presented there is not enough to sway the most jaded individual, then nothing will. For example: The Sudarium of Oviedo, a smaller cloth napkin, was placed over the face and about the head of the same man whose blood stains are on the Shroud. 

Recent Historical Investigations on the Sudarium of Oveido," published by Mark Guscin, a member of the multi-disciplined Investigation Team of the Centro Español de Sindonología and the British Society for the Turin Shroud, summarized the forensic findings to date. Here are some highlights of that report:

• "It seems to be a funeral cloth that was probably placed over the head of the corpse of an adult male of normal constitution. The man whose face the Sudarium covered had a beard, moustache and long hair, tied up at the nape of his neck into a ponytail."
  
  

• "The man was dead. The mechanism that formed the stains is incompatible with any kind of breathing movement."
  
  

• "the man was wounded before death with something that made his scalp bleed and produced wounds on his neck, shoulders and upper part of the back."
  
  

• "The man suffered a pulmonary oedema as a consequence of the terminal process. The main stains are one part blood and six parts fluid from the pulmonary oedema."
  
  

• "the only position compatible with the formation of the stains on the Oviedo cloth is both arms outstretched above the head and the feet in such a position as to make breathing very difficult, i.e. a position totally compatible with crucifixion. We can say that the man was wounded first (blood on the head, shoulders and back) and then 'crucified.'" 
  
  

• "on reaching the destination, the body was placed face up and for unknown reasons, the cloth was taken off the head."
  

There are many points of coincidence between all these points and the Shroud of Turin - the blood group, the way the corpse was tortured and died, and the macroscopic overlay of the stains on each cloth. This is especially notable in that the blood on the sudarium shed in life, as opposed to post mortem, corresponds exactly in blood group, blood type and surface area to those stains on the Shroud on the nape of the neck. If it is clear that the two cloths must have covered the same corpse, and this conclusion is inevitable from all the studies carried out up to date, and if the history of the sudarium can be trustworthily extended back beyond the fourteenth century, which is often referred to as the Shroud's first documented historical appearance, then this would take the Shroud back to at least the earliest dates of the sudarium's known history. The ark of relics and the sudarium have without any doubt at all been in Spain since the beginning of the seventh century, and the history recorded in various manuscripts from various times and geographical areas take it all the way back to Jerusalem in the first century. The importance of this for Shroud history cannot be overstressed.

[HumanaeVitae]

Let's put it this way---have your nonbeliever friends read "The Ressurection of the Shroud". If you haven't read it, read it. The Shroud "test" was fixed; IMHO it's real.

[RMrattlesnake]

The shroud is not christ.

[HumanaeVitae]

The most exhilarating finding is when they examined the "eyes" of the shroud they found that coins had been placed over the eyes of the body. This was a common Jewish custom at the time.

Using an electron microscope, they found that they could make out the letters "UCAI" on the coins(called leptons); the letters "UCAI" were part of a roman word that was only inscribed on coins issued by--get this--Pontius Pilate in upper Palestine between 29-31 A.D.

[NYer]

The shroud is not christ.

Correct, it is a piece of cloth bearing the image of a man who was subjected to the same persecution and crucifixion as Christ.

Have you visited the link? What observations are you willing to share with the other posters on this thread. If you are only going to make abject statements, then it would be the equivalent of me saying: RMrattlesnake is not real.

[NYer]

The most exhilarating finding is when they examined the "eyes" of the shroud they found that coins had been placed over the eyes of the body.

Though the lepta (plural of lepton) minted in Palestine were Roman produced coins, the inscription of Tiberius Caesar would have been written in Greek as TIBERIOU KAISAROS. Was the C, where a K was expected, a misspelling? This was a problem that seemed to preclude positive identification until an actual lituus lepton was found with the aberrant spelling. Several have since been found.

There will always be skeptics ... St. Thomas was the first. Thank you, HumanaeVitae, for the information on the book. I have not read it but will pick up a copy.

[american colleen]

Using an electron microscope, they found that they could make out the letters "UCAI" on the coins(called leptons); the letters "UCAI" were part of a roman word that was only inscribed on coins issued by--get this--Pontius Pilate in upper Palestine between 29-31 A.D.

Wow! I've kept up with the Shroud over the years, but this piece of info is news to me... incredible discovery! Thanks for the name of the book "The Ressurection of the Shroud" - I just put it in my Amazon.com shopping basket.

The discovery of the figures in the Guadalupe Virgin's irises is incredible as well. Both the Shroud of Turin and the image of Our Lady of Guadalupe are gifts from God, IMHO.

[RMrattlesnake]

Yes I have look at the web site. I have heard much of that before. I beleive that it is not christ image on the shoud. The shoud has never toughed christ. It was found in turkey in an old church as to were it was before that I or nobody else knows.

For one it has the image of christ as the long haired man I believe he might have had a beard as many rabbi's did in thet day. But I believe the Lord had short hair as was the style of the day. back them.

[Dajjal]

Holy Shroud bump

[NYer]

What did Jesus look like? Amazingly, there is no description of Him in the New Testament or in any contemporary source.  Yet, in hundreds of icons, paintings, mosaics, drawings and coins, there is a common quality that enables us to identify Jesus in works of art. Shroud scholar and historian Ian Wilson theorizes that a common set of facial characteristics became the norm following the discovery of the Edessa Cloth concealed in the city's walls in 544 CE. 

I believe the Lord had short hair as was the style of the day. back them.

Apparent Shroud-inspired images of Christ are noticeable on coins struck in 692 CE during the reign of the Byzantine emperor Justinian II. The distinctive front-facing appearance of Jesus on the Shroud is also found on numerous icons, mosaics and frescos from the sixth century on. The most startling example is the Christ Pantocrator icon at Saint Catherine's Monastery, reliably dated to 550 CE. 

"Using our Polarized Image Overlay Technique, we have examined hundreds of depictions of Jesus in every type of artistic medium from one-fourth-inch-high faces on coins to gigantic mosaics covering the ceilings of great cathedrals from the sixth century on, and we have been able to show that the Mandylion/Shroud face was used as the prototype for almost all of these images."

Mary and Alan Whanger from their book, The Shroud of Turin: An Adventure in Discovery

[HumanaeVitae]

Actually "The Resurrection of the Shroud" goes through the history of the Shroud, when it was known as the Mandylion, and the Image of Odessa. It can be traced right back to the 1st century. The book is a blockbuster--I bought it after I saw the author on EWTN Booknotes with Doug Keck.

[HumanaeVitae]

"Odessa"="Edessa".

[RMrattlesnake]

Antone who need that old cloth to believe don't realy believe anyway.

It is not Jesus

[RMrattlesnake]

Yea I say that on t.v., so really it proves nothing. I know Jesus was real I believe the bible. Not because of some arcaic cloth in the basement of some false doctrine centerized church.

John 4: 48. Then said Jesus unto him, Except ye see signs and wonders, ye will not believe.

[Catholicguy]

Click on this link to read a report on The Shroud. It is, of course, the actual burial garmet of Jesus. The hosting site is nutz, BUT, their study of The Shroud unmasked the fraud that was the "scientific investigation"

http://www.crc-internet.org/

[HumanaeVitae]

Thanks Catholicguy...

[NYer]

Hi! Though you might want to bump the Protestant list. For those who are not familiar with the shroud, the link provides an unbelievable amount of data regarding the man whose image appears thereon. Most remarkable are seeds and pollen found in the fibers, which come ONLY from the Holy Land.