Present at the Demolition<br> An interview with Dr. Alice von Hildebrand

The Latin Mass ^ | Summer 2001 | Dr. Alice von Hildebrand

[Catholicguy]

I challenge you to demonstrate how J23 was so much more competent than H. on the particular charges.

Well, there is the fact, for starters, that he was Pope.

[Desdemona]

I follow the Living Magisterium. It decides what is and isn't Tradition

With all due respect CG, they either accept or reject. And sometimes traditions are discarded that really shouldn't be. The judgement isn't always perfect.

[sydney smith]

The n.o. Mass, despite being 'valid' is silly. It is a ridiculous ho-down of hugging, hand-shaking, smiling, women(mostly) sometimes accompanied by their husbands(that they threaten with unspeakable violence if they don't come to Mass with her and her 1-2 kids, appropriately spaced by Otho-Novum). How any man(or seriously Catholic woman) can stomach little girls carrying the 'gifts', the 'sign of peace', etc. is beyond me.

[Catholicguy]

The Mass is the Mass is the Mass. My parish is nothing like what you describe.

[Catholicguy]

It has always been thus. Every epoch has seen layman telling the Magisterium it had no clue. Those laymen are dead and the Living Magisterium lives.

I have no problem with folks voicing their opinions. I do have trouble when they insist their personal preferences, prejudices, predelictions are Tradition and the Living Magisterium is destroying Tradition and the Living Magisterium has to answer to them.<> Really, the Pride is astonishing.

[Catholicguy]

"How any man(or seriously Catholic woman) can stomach little girls carrying the 'gifts', the 'sign of peace', etc. is beyond me."

It certainly is.

[TradicalRC]

It is not me that anyone has to answer to, I do not recall any of the Trads claiming that position either. Perhaps I missed a post here or there.

The living magisterium is there as is the Word of God and will still be there when we are all gone. Tradition cannot change from age to age as God does not change from age to age.

To say that the Pope can say and do anything and therefore it is tradition defies logic. I am not criticizing the Pope or the post conciliar church based on what I like or do not like. It is by looking at what Catholics have always and everywhere believed and comparing that to the last few tumultuous decades that causes me to question whether the Church has gone astray. Christ said that the gates of Hell shall not prevail; he never claimed that the Church and the magisterium would never suffer from diabolical influences.

Your point about obedience is not lost on me. I am still in the RCC at a Novus Ordo church but I pray constantly for a restoration. Our forty years in the desert seems to be coming to an end, my pastor has had plans drawn up for our church to move the Tabernacle back to the center of the altar. I am still praying for an indult closer to home of the Tridentine liturgy.

[Catholicguy]

what if the Pope were evil, in league with the Devil, and issued decrees with which you disagreed. Would you say he had no authority over you?

[Catholicguy]

"Perhaps I missed a post here or there",

more like 1483-1546 posts.

[ninenot]

Let's try again. You specifically state that JP23 was MORE COMPETENT to judge who was/was not malevolent within the Curia and its apparatchiks.

I disagree, period, and you are wrong. Both the Hild's, as well as you and I, may be much more competent to judge these affairs.

The Holy Spirit does NOT guarantee a Pope's judgment of the integrity of his subordinates.

Thus, H. is right, you and J23 are/were WRONG--and we can name names, if we have to. Cf: Windswept House.

[Catholicguy]

"I disagree, period, and you are wrong. "

LMAO

[Catholicguy]

I suggest you take Mr. Martin with a CAVE of salt given his history...good grief.

[TradicalRC]

Okay, if the Pope declared abortion and homosexuality to be okay and every Catholic must indulge in these acts in order to be considered a good catholic does he have authority over you then? Or would your prejudices get in the way? Would you obey? Or is obedience all right only as long as YOU are comfortable with papal decrees?

[ninenot]

You just can't defend your silly statement that the Pope knows more about his subordinates than do others, can you?

QED

[Catholicguy]

"Let's try again. You specifically state that JP23 was MORE COMPETENT to judge who was/was not malevolent within the Curia and its apparatchiks."

LOL ou are so anxious to "win" a point you charge me with maing statements I never made. Obviously this is a huge deal for you. I have no idea why.

"I disagree, period, and you are wrong. Both the Hild's, as well as you and I, may be much more competent to judge these affairs. "

You credit hearsay about one half of the controversy. How'n the heck do you know what the Pope either knew or didn't know? Look, the H's are wonderful but his wife was manipulated by TLM magazine. They chose her and traded on her husband's reputation to coax their readership to agree with them the Vatican Two Ecumenical Council never should have been called. Some folks, obviously, fell for the questionable tactic.

"The Holy Spirit does NOT guarantee a Pope's judgment of the integrity of his subordinates."

Of course EVERYBODY knows that.

[narses]

Another oldie ping.

[netmilsmom]

bttt

[narses]

Thanks.

[netmilsmom]

No problem at all.
We are trying to buy a used car and I want to read this later.

[murphE]

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