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Present at the Demolition<br> An interview with Dr. Alice von Hildebrand
The Latin Mass ^ | Summer 2001 | Dr. Alice von Hildebrand

Posted on 07/27/2002 4:57:56 PM PDT by narses

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To: american colleen
"Rejoice, I say again unto you: Rejoice!!"

It is the Introit sung for the Third Sunday of Advent.

Here's the entire Introit: (Phillipians, 4, 4-6):

Rejoice in the Lord always: again I say, rejoice. Let your moderation be known to all men: for the Lord is near. Have no anxiety, but in everything, by prayer let your petitions be made known to God. (Ps.) You have blessed, O Lord, your land; You have turned away the captivity of Jacob...

The understanding is that "land" of Hebrew is equivalent to "Church" in the NT. Hebrew is concrete--thus, "land." The 'New Israel' is the Church.
41 posted on 10/05/2003 6:39:04 AM PDT by ninenot (Democrats make mistakes. RINOs don't correct them.--Chesterton (adapted by Ninenot))
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To: Catholicguy
One good reason to consider the Hildebrands' opinions is that John XXIII was not infallible in these matters. Thus his opinion on such is equivalent to the H's...
42 posted on 10/05/2003 6:41:57 AM PDT by ninenot (Democrats make mistakes. RINOs don't correct them.--Chesterton (adapted by Ninenot))
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To: Catholicguy
So? VII was specifically NOT a doctrinal Council.
43 posted on 10/05/2003 6:43:52 AM PDT by ninenot (Democrats make mistakes. RINOs don't correct them.--Chesterton (adapted by Ninenot))
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To: ninenot
Of course it wasn't. And CG knows that. He clings to obedience the way Trads do to Latin. He ignores the greater issue, the disobedience, heresies and crimes of the Modern hierarchs. By attacking TLM, Una Voce and the like he tries to distract from the 900 lb dead horse in the living room.
44 posted on 10/05/2003 8:47:01 AM PDT by narses ("The do-it-yourself Mass is ended. Go in peace" Francis Cardinal Arinze of Nigeria)
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To: ninenot
LMAO..and Rush Limbaugh's opinion about Donovan McNabb is equivalent to those NFL players who voted him to three consecutive pro bowls.<>
R U taking Oxycontin? :)
45 posted on 10/05/2003 7:28:21 PM PDT by Catholicguy (MT1618 Church of Peter remains pure and spotless from all leading into error, or heretical fraud)
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To: ninenot
The Magisterium of the Church

85 "The task of giving an authentic interpretation of the Word of God, whether in its written form or in the form of Tradition, has been entrusted to the living teaching office of the Church alone. Its authority in this matter is exercised in the name of Jesus Christ."47 This means that the task of interpretation has been entrusted to the bishops in communion with the successor of Peter, the Bishop of Rome.

86 "Yet this Magisterium is not superior to the Word of God, but is its servant. It teaches only what has been handed on to it. At the divine command and with the help of the Holy Spirit, it listens to this devotedly, guards it with dedication and expounds it faithfully. All that it proposes for belief as being divinely revealed is drawn from this single deposit of faith."48

87 Mindful of Christ's words to his apostles: "He who hears you, hears me",49 the faithful receive with docility the teachings and directives that their pastors give them in different forms.

You have interesting opinions. However, you have no authority. Neither do the Hildebrands. The Magisterium does.
46 posted on 10/05/2003 7:56:22 PM PDT by Catholicguy (MT1618 Church of Peter remains pure and spotless from all leading into error, or heretical fraud)
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To: Catholicguy
The good Doctor is one of the most brilliant theologians of the XXth Century and his widow is nearly his equal. What do their legitimate, orthodox opinions have to do with your post? They SUPPORT the Magesterium in everything they write or have written, so far as I have ever seen. They simply OPPOSE Modernism, the heresy that has infected the Church so greviously.
47 posted on 10/05/2003 8:14:22 PM PDT by narses ("The do-it-yourself Mass is ended. Go in peace" Francis Cardinal Arinze of Nigeria)
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To: narses
What do your statements have to do with my post?

You must have some reason for resurrecting this dead thread.

I think TLM used her to begin with and I haven't changed my mind.

TLm can't get over the fact the Council wa called and they weren't firstconsulted. Boo hoo.

.Before you get side-tracked, again, this little quote is from Newadvent.com "dogmatic Theology." Pastoral theology, which embraces liturgy, homiletics, and catechetics, proceeded from, and bears close relationship to, moral theology; its dependence on dogmatic theology needs, therefore, no further proof.

Most trads try and dodge their Christian duty to obey Vatican Two by saying, endlessly, "it was a Pastoral Council. irrelevant

48 posted on 10/05/2003 8:43:48 PM PDT by Catholicguy (MT1618 Church of Peter remains pure and spotless from all leading into error, or heretical fraud)
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To: Catholicguy
Pastoral Theology,. (From Newadvent.com)

Pastoral theology is the science of the care of souls. This article will give the definition of pastoral theology, its relations to other theological sciences, its history, sources, and contents. A. Definition Pastoral theology is a branch of practical theology; it is essentially a practical science. All branches of theology, whether theoretical or practical, purpose in one way or another to make priests "the ministers of Christ, and the dispensers of the mysteries of God" (I Cor., iv, 1). Pastoral theology presupposes other various branches; accepts the apologetic, dogmatic, exegetic, moral, juridical, ascetical, liturgical, and other conclusions reached by the ecclesiastical student, and scientifically applies these various conclusions to the priestly ministry. B. Relation to Other Theological Sciences Dogmatic theology establishes the Church as the depository of revealed truth and systematizes the deposit of faith which Christ entrusted to His Church to hand down to all generations; pastoral theology teaches the priest his part in this work of Catholic and Christian tradition of revealed truth. Moral theology explains the laws of God and of the Church, the means of grace and hindrances thereto; pastoral theology teaches the practical bearing of these laws, means, and hindrances upon the daily life of the priest, alone and in touch with his people. Canon law collects, correlates, and co-ordinates the laws of the Church; pastoral theology applies those laws to the care of souls. In brief, pastoral theology begins, where the other theological sciences leave off; takes the results of them all and makes these results effective for the salvation of souls through the ministry of the priesthood established by Christ. C. History The name pastoral theology is new; the science is as old as the Church itself, as appears from the manifold instructions given by Jesus to His Apostles for the care of souls (Matt., x, 6 sqq.; Mark, vi, 8 sqq.; Luke, ix, 3 sqq.; x, 4 sqq.; xxii, 35) and from the pastoral letters of St. Paul and the very detailed instructions they give to Timothy and to Titus in regard to the sacred ministry. The writings of the Fathers, from the Apostolic age onward, are replete with pastoral instruction. St. Ignatius of Antioch [A.D. 110 [Harnack]) scatters such advice throughout his epistles -- see, for instance, "Ad Magnesios" (Harnack's ed., "Patres apostolici", II, 29). The letters of St. Cyprian (A.D. 248) are, many of them, either wholly or in part written about the care of souls (cf. P. L., IV, 194 sq.) -- "Qui Antistites in ecclesia eligendi?", "Qualis esse debeat vita sacerdotum?" etc. His "De lapsis" (P. L., IV, 477) is a classic among pastoral instructions. St. Gregory Nazianzen (A.D. 389), explaining his flight to Pontus, tells his ideas of the pastor of souls in "Oratio apologetica de fuga sua", a work sometimes called "De sacerdotio" (P. G., XXXV, 408), and sets down pastoral care as a great science and art, "Ars quædam artium et scientia scientiarum mihi esse videtur hominem regere". Other landmarks in the history of pastoral theology are St. Ambrose, "De officiis ministrorum" (P. L., XV1, 25); St. John Chrysostom, "De sacerdotio" (P. G., XLVIII, 623); St. Isidore of Seville, "De institutione clericorum", ''De institutionibus monachorum", "De regulis clericorum" (P. L., LXXXIV, 25, 45, 77); St. Bernard's letters and treatises "De consideratione", "De moribus episcoporum", "De conversione ad clericos" (P. L., CLXXXII, 727, 809, 833). The great classic among patristic works on the care of souls is "Regulæ pastoralis liber" (P. L., LXXVII, 13), written by St. Gregory the Great (c. A.D. 590) to John, Bishop of Ravenna. During the Middle Ages, there was not yet a separated and systematized science of pastoral theology. Scholasticism did not recognize this science apart from other branches of theology. Dogma and moral were so taught as to include the application of their conclusions to the care of souls. Still, even then writings of the great Doctors of the Church were at times purely pastoral; such were the "Opuscula", 17-20, of St. Thomas Aquinas; St. Bonaventure's "De sex alis seraphim", "De regimine animæ", "Confessionale"; the "Summa theologica" (Books II, III), together with the ''Summa confessionalis" of St. Antoninus, Bishop of Florence. At the same time, writers on mystical theology (see V. MYSTICAL THEOLOGY) have often entered into the domain of pastoral theology. Not until the period of the Counter-Reformation did the science of pastoral theology take its present systematized form. During the latter half of the fifteenth century, in certain places, pastoral duties were very much neglected. By the dawn of the sixteenth century, the care of souls was to many priests and not a few bishops a lost or a never-acquired art, with the result that the laity were ready to throw off what was deemed to be a useless clerical yoke. In such places, a reform of the clergy was sorely needed. The Council of Trent set itself to bring about a true reformation of the priesthood. Catholic bishops and theologians followed the lead of the council. The result was the treatment of the care of souls as a science by itself. During the following centuries of true reform and of battle with false reform, the most scientific treatises on pastoral duties and rights were written. John of Avila, Louis of Granada, Peter de Soto, Claude le Jay (Institutiones practicæ), Neumayr (Vir apostolicus), Possevin (Praxis curæ pastoralis), Segneri, Olier, Molina, Toledo (De instructione sacerdotum), Cardinal Cajetan, St. Charles Borromeo (Instructio pastorum), the works of St. Francis de Sales, of Rodriguez, of Scaramelli -- such are a few of the scientific treatises that did much to illumine and to strengthen the pastors of the Counter-Reformation, In 1759 St. Alphonsus Liguori issued his great pastoral theology, "Homo apostolicus". He epitomized the conclusions reached by him in his "Moral Theology", applied these conclusions practically to the work of hearing confessions, and added four appendices bearing specifically upon such pastoral duties as the direction of souls, the assistance of the dying, the examination of those to be ordained priests, and the duties of confessors and pastors in regard to their own as well as their flock's sanctification. This work, together with the legislation of Benedict XIV in the matter of diocesan synods, gave a great impetus to the science of pastoral theology. D. Sources Tradition and the Holy Bible, in so far as they portray the ideal Priest, Teacher, and Pastor, and hand down to us His ideas for the care of souls, are the first sources of pastoral theology. As evidence of Tradition the decrees of general councils are of the highest moment. Next come pontifical Constitutions -- Bulls, Briefs, and Motu Proprios; decrees of Roman Congregations; the works cited in Sanford-Drum, op. cit. below; the various sources of dogmatic and moral theology and of canon law, in so far as they bear directly or indirectly upon the care of souls. Decrees of various provincial councils and diocesan synods together with pastoral letters of archbishops and bishops are also among the sources whence pastoral theology draws. For ecclesiastical legislation, one must follow the "Acts Apostolicæ Sedis", a monthly official bulletin published in Rome; the promulgation of laws, authentic interpretations, decisions and rescripts of the Roman Curia is now effected ipso facto by publication in this periodical. For past decisions the various decreta authentica of different Roman Congregations must be consulted. Such are "Thesaurus resolutionum Sacræ Congregationis Concilii", from 1718 (Rome); "Decreta authentica Congregationis Sacrorum Rituum" (Rome, 1898); "Decreta authentica sacræ Congregationis Indulgentiis Sacrisque Reliquiis Præpositæ", from 1668 to 1882 (Ratisbon); Pallottini, "Collectio omnium decretorum Sacræ Congregationis Concilii" (Rome, 1868); Bizarri, "Collectanea Sacræ Congregationis Episcoporum et Regularium" (Rome, 1863, 1885); "Collectanea Sacræ Congregationis de Propaganda Fide" (Rome, 1893, 1907). A handy reference work in this matter is Ferraris, "Prompta bibliotheca", together with its supplement edited by Bucceroni (Rome, 1885). Ojetti, "Synopsis rerum moralium et juris pontificii" (Prato, 1904), is also useful. For the pastoral care of religious communities, necessary information may be obtained from Vermeersch, "De religiosis et missionariis supplementa et monumenta", together with the periodical supplements thereto (Bruges, 1904--), and Dom Bastien, "Constitution de Léon XIII sur les instituts a voeux simples et leur relations avec les autorités diocésaines" (Bruges), a work which has been translated into English by Lanslots (Pustet, New York). Periodicals giving current direction and information as to the care of souls are: "Acta Sanctæ Sedis" (Rome, from 1865), now discontinued; "Analecta juris pontificii" (Rome, 1833; Paris, 1869), replaced by "Analecta ecclesiastica" (Rome, 1893-1911); "II Monitore Ecclesiastico" (Rome, 1876); "The American Ecclesiastical Review" (Philadelphia, 1889); "The Irish Ecclesiastical Record" (Dublin, 1865); "Nouvelle Revue Théologique" (Tournai, 1869); "Theologischpraktische Quartalschrift" (Linz); "Zeitschrift für katholische Theologie" (Innsbruck, 1877). E. Contents From the days when St. Gregory the Great wrote his classic "Regulæ pastoralis liber", the duties that make for the care of souls have been conveniently divided into those of the teacher, of the minister of the sacred mysteries, and of the shepherd; pastoral theology purposes to impart the knowledge of these duties and of the treatise known as "pastoral medicine", the medical knowledge requisite for the proper care of souls. Under the head of teacher are treated the duty of teaching, the qualities of the teacher, his training, the models of teaching left us by the Fathers and Doctors of the Church, as well as by distinguished preachers and catechists, and the occasions and forms of instruction suited for the various needs of the faithful, young and old, literate and illiterate. The Council of Trent, in the fifth session, lays down a twofold duty of the teacher, to preach on Sundays and festivals, and to give catechetical instruction to children and to others who have need of such instruction. Benedict XIV, in his Constitution, "Etsi Minime", calls special attention to this latter most important duty. Pius X, in his Encyclical on the teaching of Christian doctrine (15 April, 1905), insists once again on the paramount need of catechetical instruction. All parish priests, and all others to whom the care of souls is committed, must teach the catechism to their young girls and boys for the space of one hour on all Sundays and holy days of the year without exception, and must explain to them what one is bound to believe and practise in order to be saved. These children shall, at stated times during each year, be prepared by more extended instruction for the Sacraments of Penance and Confirmation. Daily instruction during Lent, and even after Easter, will make the young children of both sexes ready for their first Holy Communion. Moreover, an hour every Sunday and holy day shall be devoted to the catechetical instruction of adults. This lesson in catechism, in plain and simple language, is to be given over and above the Sunday homily on the Gospel and the children's instruction in Christian doctrine. As minister of the sacred mysteries, the priest must not only know the nature of the sacraments, so far as dogmatic theology explains it, besides what is needed for their valid administration, as taught in moral theology, but must also possess such additional knowledge as may serve him in his spiritual ministrations -- for instance, in attending the sick, in advising what is lawful or unlawful in critical operations, especially in such as may affect childbirth; in directing others, when necessary, how to baptize the unborn child; in deciding whether to confer extreme unction or other sacraments in cases of apparent death, etc. Finally, as pastor, a variety of duties have to be mastered, which keep growing and varying in number constantly with the complicated conditions of modern life, especially wherever there is a tendency to mass people together in large cities, or wherever migration to and fro causes frequent change. This, perhaps, is the main part of pastoral theology. The organization of parishes; the maintenance of a church and other institutions that grow up around it; the management of parish schools; the formation of societies for men and women, young and old; the vast number of social works into which a priest in a modern city is almost necessarily drawn -- all these points furnish material for instruction, which, as the fruit of experience, can rarely be conveyed through books. Usually the priest acquires sufficient knowledge of all these things from prudent directors as he goes through his seminary course, or from his own experience under a competent pastor; but gradually an extensive literature on these subjects has accumulated during the past half century, and it is the systematization of such writings that constitutes pastoral theology

49 posted on 10/05/2003 8:44:40 PM PDT by Catholicguy (MT1618 Church of Peter remains pure and spotless from all leading into error, or heretical fraud)
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To: Catholicguy
Pastoral Theology,. (From Newadvent.com)

Pastoral theology is the science of the care of souls. This article will give the definition of pastoral theology, its relations to other theological sciences, its history, sources, and contents.

A. Definition

Pastoral theology is a branch of practical theology; it is essentially a practical science. All branches of theology, whether theoretical or practical, purpose in one way or another to make priests "the ministers of Christ, and the dispensers of the mysteries of God" (I Cor., iv, 1). Pastoral theology presupposes other various branches; accepts the apologetic, dogmatic, exegetic, moral, juridical, ascetical, liturgical, and other conclusions reached by the ecclesiastical student, and scientifically applies these various conclusions to the priestly ministry.

B. Relation to Other Theological Sciences

Dogmatic theology establishes the Church as the depository of revealed truth and systematizes the deposit of faith which Christ entrusted to His Church to hand down to all generations; pastoral theology teaches the priest his part in this work of Catholic and Christian tradition of revealed truth. Moral theology explains the laws of God and of the Church, the means of grace and hindrances thereto; pastoral theology teaches the practical bearing of these laws, means, and hindrances upon the daily life of the priest, alone and in touch with his people. Canon law collects, correlates, and co-ordinates the laws of the Church; pastoral theology applies those laws to the care of souls. In brief, pastoral theology begins, where the other theological sciences leave off; takes the results of them all and makes these results effective for the salvation of souls through the ministry of the priesthood established by Christ.

C. History

The name pastoral theology is new; the science is as old as the Church itself, as appears from the manifold instructions given by Jesus to His Apostles for the care of souls (Matt., x, 6 sqq.; Mark, vi, 8 sqq.; Luke, ix, 3 sqq.; x, 4 sqq.; xxii, 35) and from the pastoral letters of St. Paul and the very detailed instructions they give to Timothy and to Titus in regard to the sacred ministry. The writings of the Fathers, from the Apostolic age onward, are replete with pastoral instruction. St. Ignatius of Antioch [A.D. 110 [Harnack]) scatters such advice throughout his epistles -- see, for instance, "Ad Magnesios" (Harnack's ed., "Patres apostolici", II, 29). The letters of St. Cyprian (A.D. 248) are, many of them, either wholly or in part written about the care of souls (cf. P. L., IV, 194 sq.) -- "Qui Antistites in ecclesia eligendi?", "Qualis esse debeat vita sacerdotum?" etc. His "De lapsis" (P. L., IV, 477) is a classic among pastoral instructions. St. Gregory Nazianzen (A.D. 389), explaining his flight to Pontus, tells his ideas of the pastor of souls in "Oratio apologetica de fuga sua", a work sometimes called "De sacerdotio" (P. G., XXXV, 408), and sets down pastoral care as a great science and art, "Ars quædam artium et scientia scientiarum mihi esse videtur hominem regere". Other landmarks in the history of pastoral theology are St. Ambrose, "De officiis ministrorum" (P. L., XV1, 25); St. John Chrysostom, "De sacerdotio" (P. G., XLVIII, 623); St. Isidore of Seville, "De institutione clericorum", ''De institutionibus monachorum", "De regulis clericorum" (P. L., LXXXIV, 25, 45, 77); St. Bernard's letters and treatises "De consideratione", "De moribus episcoporum", "De conversione ad clericos" (P. L., CLXXXII, 727, 809, 833). The great classic among patristic works on the care of souls is "Regulæ pastoralis liber" (P. L., LXXVII, 13), written by St. Gregory the Great (c. A.D. 590) to John, Bishop of Ravenna.

During the Middle Ages, there was not yet a separated and systematized science of pastoral theology. Scholasticism did not recognize this science apart from other branches of theology. Dogma and moral were so taught as to include the application of their conclusions to the care of souls. Still, even then writings of the great Doctors of the Church were at times purely pastoral; such were the "Opuscula", 17-20, of St. Thomas Aquinas; St. Bonaventure's "De sex alis seraphim", "De regimine animæ", "Confessionale"; the "Summa theologica" (Books II, III), together with the ''Summa confessionalis" of St. Antoninus, Bishop of Florence. At the same time, writers on mystical theology (see V. MYSTICAL THEOLOGY) have often entered into the domain of pastoral theology. Not until the period of the Counter-Reformation did the science of pastoral theology take its present systematized form. During the latter half of the fifteenth century, in certain places, pastoral duties were very much neglected. By the dawn of the sixteenth century, the care of souls was to many priests and not a few bishops a lost or a never-acquired art, with the result that the laity were ready to throw off what was deemed to be a useless clerical yoke. In such places, a reform of the clergy was sorely needed. The Council of Trent set itself to bring about a true reformation of the priesthood. Catholic bishops and theologians followed the lead of the council. The result was the treatment of the care of souls as a science by itself. During the following centuries of true reform and of battle with false reform, the most scientific treatises on pastoral duties and rights were written. John of Avila, Louis of Granada, Peter de Soto, Claude le Jay (Institutiones practicæ), Neumayr (Vir apostolicus), Possevin (Praxis curæ pastoralis), Segneri, Olier, Molina, Toledo (De instructione sacerdotum), Cardinal Cajetan, St. Charles Borromeo (Instructio pastorum), the works of St. Francis de Sales, of Rodriguez, of Scaramelli -- such are a few of the scientific treatises that did much to illumine and to strengthen the pastors of the Counter-Reformation, In 1759 St. Alphonsus Liguori issued his great pastoral theology, "Homo apostolicus". He epitomized the conclusions reached by him in his "Moral Theology", applied these conclusions practically to the work of hearing confessions, and added four appendices bearing specifically upon such pastoral duties as the direction of souls, the assistance of the dying, the examination of those to be ordained priests, and the duties of confessors and pastors in regard to their own as well as their flock's sanctification. This work, together with the legislation of Benedict XIV in the matter of diocesan synods, gave a great impetus to the science of pastoral theology.

D. Sources

Tradition and the Holy Bible, in so far as they portray the ideal Priest, Teacher, and Pastor, and hand down to us His ideas for the care of souls, are the first sources of pastoral theology. As evidence of Tradition the decrees of general councils are of the highest moment. Next come pontifical Constitutions -- Bulls, Briefs, and Motu Proprios; decrees of Roman Congregations; the works cited in Sanford-Drum, op. cit. below; the various sources of dogmatic and moral theology and of canon law, in so far as they bear directly or indirectly upon the care of souls. Decrees of various provincial councils and diocesan synods together with pastoral letters of archbishops and bishops are also among the sources whence pastoral theology draws. For ecclesiastical legislation, one must follow the "Acts Apostolicæ Sedis", a monthly official bulletin published in Rome; the promulgation of laws, authentic interpretations, decisions and rescripts of the Roman Curia is now effected ipso facto by publication in this periodical. For past decisions the various decreta authentica of different Roman Congregations must be consulted. Such are "Thesaurus resolutionum Sacræ Congregationis Concilii", from 1718 (Rome); "Decreta authentica Congregationis Sacrorum Rituum" (Rome, 1898); "Decreta authentica sacræ Congregationis Indulgentiis Sacrisque Reliquiis Præpositæ", from 1668 to 1882 (Ratisbon); Pallottini, "Collectio omnium decretorum Sacræ Congregationis Concilii" (Rome, 1868); Bizarri, "Collectanea Sacræ Congregationis Episcoporum et Regularium" (Rome, 1863, 1885); "Collectanea Sacræ Congregationis de Propaganda Fide" (Rome, 1893, 1907). A handy reference work in this matter is Ferraris, "Prompta bibliotheca", together with its supplement edited by Bucceroni (Rome, 1885). Ojetti, "Synopsis rerum moralium et juris pontificii" (Prato, 1904), is also useful. For the pastoral care of religious communities, necessary information may be obtained from Vermeersch, "De religiosis et missionariis supplementa et monumenta", together with the periodical supplements thereto (Bruges, 1904--), and Dom Bastien, "Constitution de Léon XIII sur les instituts a voeux simples et leur relations avec les autorités diocésaines" (Bruges), a work which has been translated into English by Lanslots (Pustet, New York). Periodicals giving current direction and information as to the care of souls are: "Acta Sanctæ Sedis" (Rome, from 1865), now discontinued; "Analecta juris pontificii" (Rome, 1833; Paris, 1869), replaced by "Analecta ecclesiastica" (Rome, 1893-1911); "II Monitore Ecclesiastico" (Rome, 1876); "The American Ecclesiastical Review" (Philadelphia, 1889); "The Irish Ecclesiastical Record" (Dublin, 1865); "Nouvelle Revue Théologique" (Tournai, 1869); "Theologischpraktische Quartalschrift" (Linz); "Zeitschrift für katholische Theologie" (Innsbruck, 1877).

E. Contents

From the days when St. Gregory the Great wrote his classic "Regulæ pastoralis liber", the duties that make for the care of souls have been conveniently divided into those of the teacher, of the minister of the sacred mysteries, and of the shepherd; pastoral theology purposes to impart the knowledge of these duties and of the treatise known as "pastoral medicine", the medical knowledge requisite for the proper care of souls.

Under the head of teacher are treated the duty of teaching, the qualities of the teacher, his training, the models of teaching left us by the Fathers and Doctors of the Church, as well as by distinguished preachers and catechists, and the occasions and forms of instruction suited for the various needs of the faithful, young and old, literate and illiterate. The Council of Trent, in the fifth session, lays down a twofold duty of the teacher, to preach on Sundays and festivals, and to give catechetical instruction to children and to others who have need of such instruction. Benedict XIV, in his Constitution, "Etsi Minime", calls special attention to this latter most important duty. Pius X, in his Encyclical on the teaching of Christian doctrine (15 April, 1905), insists once again on the paramount need of catechetical instruction. All parish priests, and all others to whom the care of souls is committed, must teach the catechism to their young girls and boys for the space of one hour on all Sundays and holy days of the year without exception, and must explain to them what one is bound to believe and practise in order to be saved. These children shall, at stated times during each year, be prepared by more extended instruction for the Sacraments of Penance and Confirmation. Daily instruction during Lent, and even after Easter, will make the young children of both sexes ready for their first Holy Communion. Moreover, an hour every Sunday and holy day shall be devoted to the catechetical instruction of adults. This lesson in catechism, in plain and simple language, is to be given over and above the Sunday homily on the Gospel and the children's instruction in Christian doctrine.

As minister of the sacred mysteries, the priest must not only know the nature of the sacraments, so far as dogmatic theology explains it, besides what is needed for their valid administration, as taught in moral theology, but must also possess such additional knowledge as may serve him in his spiritual ministrations -- for instance, in attending the sick, in advising what is lawful or unlawful in critical operations, especially in such as may affect childbirth; in directing others, when necessary, how to baptize the unborn child; in deciding whether to confer extreme unction or other sacraments in cases of apparent death, etc.

Finally, as pastor, a variety of duties have to be mastered, which keep growing and varying in number constantly with the complicated conditions of modern life, especially wherever there is a tendency to mass people together in large cities, or wherever migration to and fro causes frequent change. This, perhaps, is the main part of pastoral theology. The organization of parishes; the maintenance of a church and other institutions that grow up around it; the management of parish schools; the formation of societies for men and women, young and old; the vast number of social works into which a priest in a modern city is almost necessarily drawn -- all these points furnish material for instruction, which, as the fruit of experience, can rarely be conveyed through books. Usually the priest acquires sufficient knowledge of all these things from prudent directors as he goes through his seminary course, or from his own experience under a competent pastor; but gradually an extensive literature on these subjects has accumulated during the past half century, and it is the systematization of such writings that constitutes pastoral theology

50 posted on 10/05/2003 8:46:29 PM PDT by Catholicguy (MT1618 Church of Peter remains pure and spotless from all leading into error, or heretical fraud)
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To: Catholicguy
I don't exactly understand what causes you to go to the "drug abuser" statement, rather than arguing the point.

You state that John XXIII did not agree w/Hildebrand regarding certain malevlent interests occupying the Vatican, among other places--and that John XXIII was, somehow "more knowledgeable" than Hildebrand.

I challenge you to demonstrate how J23 was so much more competent than H. on the particular charges.

You have yet to respond. We know, e.g., that Bugnini was not only a practicing homo, but also a Mason. Yet J23 kept him at the Vat for a while--until he found out about Bugger Bugnini's proclivities.

THEN Paul VI rehabilitated Bugger--only to get double-crossed, and send the jackass to Iran--(and Rembert to Milwaukee, by some strange co-incidence.)

So: answer the question, please? Does the Pope possess supernatural knowledge of the character and affiliations of Vatican employees/Bishops/Cardinals? Please, do tell!!!
51 posted on 10/06/2003 10:16:09 AM PDT by ninenot (Democrats make mistakes. RINOs don't correct them.--Chesterton (adapted by Ninenot))
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To: Catholicguy
You are evading the question.

The Magisterium is one thing: liturgical practice is quite another. Similarly, determining an approach to ecumenical relations is one thing--and NOT protected by the Magisterium--as are the things we must hold.

So you would apply Magisterial protection to clown Masses? Or, to make it more clear: you would state that the Magisterium has endorsed the N.O., its ICEL translations, and 'altar girls?'

Ain't doctrine. Ain't dogma.

I don't question the authority of the Pope in liturgical matters--but like Hildebrand(s) am perfectly free to question the judgment which was applied. There were MANY mistakes made here--and Ratzinger (inter alia) agrees...
52 posted on 10/06/2003 10:21:05 AM PDT by ninenot (Democrats make mistakes. RINOs don't correct them.--Chesterton (adapted by Ninenot))
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To: Catholicguy
Pastoral theology, which embraces liturgy, homiletics, and catechetics, proceeded from, and bears close relationship to, moral theology; its dependence on dogmatic theology needs, therefore, no further proof.

Properly applied, of course.

53 posted on 10/06/2003 10:22:22 AM PDT by ninenot (Democrats make mistakes. RINOs don't correct them.--Chesterton (adapted by Ninenot))
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To: Catholicguy; narses
BTW---the lengthy post you placed re: 'pastoral theo' is nice. But the guts were in the short post: "[it] DEPENDS ON dogmatic theo."

To me, that's straightforward: since it is dependent, it cannot CONTRADICT dogmatics, as do, e.g., clown Masses.

That's what I mean by 'properly applied.'

But go ahead--proof-text.
54 posted on 10/06/2003 10:27:14 AM PDT by ninenot (Democrats make mistakes. RINOs don't correct them.--Chesterton (adapted by Ninenot))
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To: Catholicguy
There is more to the True Faith than obedience to the Pope. Tradition had always been the byword in the RCC until Vatican II. Then we got the lawyerspeak worthy of the New Testament scribes that explained the difference between Tradition and traditon. The capitalization of the T! Of course! How could I have missed it. And everything with the Big T was what the progressives liked and the little t was what the traditionalists liked. Little t was bad, regressive and got in the way of the new springtime that was going to follow Vatican II.

God is the same from age to age. Yet somehow we are to submit to a Pope who can undermine his own authority because he alone has the authority to do so. We've had a long reigning Pope so submitting to his authority may have come easy to you. Now what happens when a new Pope comes and tosses out the changes of the last Pope?
And what of bishops who disregard the Pope? Aren't we supposed to obey them? Or the priest?
God is Love and Truth. Both of those are constant, not capricious. The church has turned her back most uncharitably on her most ardent believers and then blamed the traditionalists for the breach. The Tradition circumscribed the authority of the Pope and didn't allow him the free reign to declare whatever he wanted and have it recognized as legitimate simply because he's in the Chair of Peter. If you recall even Peter had to be upbraided by Paul for his duplicity with the Gentiles.
55 posted on 10/06/2003 8:58:44 PM PDT by TradicalRC (While the wicked stand confounded, Call me, with thy saints surrounded. -The Boondock Saints)
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To: Catholicguy; GatorGirl; maryz; *Catholic_list; afraidfortherepublic; Antoninus; Aquinasfan; ...
Most trads try and dodge their Christian duty to obey Vatican Two by saying, endlessly, "it was a Pastoral Council. irrelevant

Where have I done such? OTOH, when have the Bishops chosen to obey V2? Things like keeping LATIN in the Mass? Or obeying the Pope and allowing a generous and liberal Indult?

56 posted on 10/06/2003 9:31:06 PM PDT by narses ("The do-it-yourself Mass is ended. Go in peace" Francis Cardinal Arinze of Nigeria)
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To: ninenot
The drug comment, as indicated by the smile icon was just a wiseguy reference to Limbaugh.

I presume the Pope knows more than me. That includes every Pope who has lived or will ever live.

57 posted on 10/07/2003 4:30:47 AM PDT by Catholicguy (MT1618 Church of Peter remains pure and spotless from all leading into error, or heretical fraud)
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To: ninenot
TLM: Dr. von Hildebrand, at the time that Pope John XXIII summoned the Second Vatican Council, did you perceive a need for a reform within the Church? AVH: Most of the insights about this come from my husband. He always said that the members of the Church, due to the effects of original sin and actual sin, are always in need of reform. The Church’s teaching, however, is from God. Not one iota is to be changed or considered in need of reform. She and her husband didn't think the Council should have been called. Big deal. The Pope did.
58 posted on 10/07/2003 4:34:31 AM PDT by Catholicguy (MT1618 Church of Peter remains pure and spotless from all leading into error, or heretical fraud)
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To: ninenot
who is defending litirgical anomie?
59 posted on 10/07/2003 4:35:48 AM PDT by Catholicguy (MT1618 Church of Peter remains pure and spotless from all leading into error, or heretical fraud)
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To: TradicalRC
I follow the Living Magisterium. It decides what is and isn't Tradition
60 posted on 10/07/2003 4:37:51 AM PDT by Catholicguy (MT1618 Church of Peter remains pure and spotless from all leading into error, or heretical fraud)
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