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To: P-Marlowe
It looks like free grace is a position that both hold but that one over-emphasizes. Personally, I disagree that the guy says Arminians over-emphasize personal responsibility. The only area where that even is an issue that matters is when it comes to the moment of believing for salvation. And we have even that moment under the banner of the Holy Spirit's intervention.

You have to believe for yourself.

If that's overemphasizing personal responsibility, then so be it.

540 posted on 08/01/2002 6:06:38 AM PDT by xzins
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To: xzins
I disagree that the guy says Arminians over-emphasize personal responsibility.

Is your salvation "contingent" upon anything other than belief?

Grace is free. It is not some "Star Wars" force, it is God's attitude toward us, "God so loved the World that he gave his only begotten son." God has love toward every sinner despite their rebellion.

Salvation is contingent upon belief. "That whosoever believes in him..." That means it is open to everyone,

Salvation is impossible to lose, "Shall not perish but have evelasting life." If it is everlasting, then from the moment you "have" it, it is impossible to lose.

Now if there is anything "I" must do to keep that salvation, then I am responsible for my own salvation and Jesus death on the cross is meaningless. My enduring to the end is entirely the responsibility of the Holy Spirit.

A belief that someone can "lose" their salvation is clearly an overemphasis on the responsibility of man. If I am saved I WILL endure to the end. God does not need my help in getting me there. I did not die on the cross, so there's nothing I can do that will atone for any of my own sins, and if I am truly saved, then it is impossible for me to commit any sin for which God has not already forgiven me.

545 posted on 08/01/2002 6:42:31 AM PDT by P-Marlowe
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To: xzins; RnMomof7; Jerry_M; CCWoody; Jean Chauvin; Wrigley; drstevej; rwfromkansas; ...
You have to believe for yourself.

Please explain what Arminians believe regarding those who don't have an opportunity to hear the Bible, know Jesus, experience "belief for yourself."

As a Calvinist, I believe God is the sole arbitor of each man's destiny. "Belief" is a tangible sign of God's grace, but my faith recognizes that God, in His wisdom, can save or not save, anyone He wishes, regardless of their station in life.

What then does the Arminian say to the person half-way across the globe, who's never heard of Christ nor the Cross, in light of your statement, "You have to believe for yourself?"

If salvation is dependent on man's acceptance of God's offer of grace, what about those who live and die without "hearing the Word" and have no opportunity to choose for themselves God's gift of salvation?

567 posted on 08/01/2002 9:51:07 AM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg
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